The factorial of a rational number, the gamma function not used

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exploration of a formula related to the factorial of rational numbers, specifically without utilizing the gamma function. Participants examine various mathematical identities, properties of factorials, and their implications in the context of rational inputs, as well as connections to known mathematical concepts such as the Euler-Mascheroni constant and the digamma function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces a formula involving a limit and a product, suggesting it relates to the gamma function but does not use it directly.
  • Another participant questions whether the proposed formulas are valid for positive natural numbers only, expressing interest in the general form of the variables involved.
  • A participant presents a relationship between the factorial of a negative rational number and a limit involving the function L, indicating a connection to Euler's reflection formula.
  • Corrections are made regarding earlier equations, with one participant clarifying a mistake in the relationship between factorials and the function L.
  • Several participants propose new formulas related to binomial coefficients and factorial summation, exploring their implications and providing examples.
  • Discussion includes attempts to derive expressions for the digamma function and the Euler-Mascheroni constant using the proposed definitions of factorials.
  • One participant suggests that the definition of the factorial could be extended to a binary operation, akin to the Pochhammer symbol, and proposes a new notation for this operation.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the direction of the discussion, emphasizing the need for proofs accompanying the presented equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and corrections, indicating that there is no consensus on the validity of the proposed formulas or their implications. The discussion remains unresolved with competing ideas and interpretations of the mathematical concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Some formulas presented rely on specific definitions of factorials and the function L, which may not be universally accepted. There are also unresolved assumptions regarding the limits and conditions under which the proposed identities hold true.

H.B.
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My first question is: is this formula (at the bottom) a known formula?
In this subject i haven't explained how i build up the formula.
So far i think it is equal to the gamma function of Euler with

\Gamma\left(\frac{m_1}{m_2}+1\right)= \frac{m_1}{m_2}\ !

with

m_1 , m_2 \in \mathbf{N}

and

1<m_2

This gamma function however I didn't use.
The next limit i write like L(q,x) in de last formula.

L(q,x)=\prod^{\infty}_{k=0}\frac{(k+q+x) (k+1)}{(k+q)(k+1+x)}

with

q\neq

0,-1,-2,-3, …… and

x\neq

–1,-2,-3,-4, ……..

This is the formula where i use the factorial symbol ! because i think that it gives no problems with arguments with real values.

\frac{ m_1}{m_2}\ !=\left(m_1\ ! \prod^{ m_2-1}_{ i=1}L\left(1+ i\frac{ m_1}{m_2}, \frac{ m_1}{m_2}\right) \right)^\frac{1}{m_2}
 
 
with

m_1 , m_2 \in\mathbf{N}

and

1<m_2

Please feel free to react.
 
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Does it only work for positive natural numbers? Even if limited by those inputs I still like your 'q' and 'x' general form (assuming this identity is correct).
 
@mesa,
The input is a positive rational number m1/m2.
For an input of a negative rational number the relation between x! and (-x)! according to my definition (which i didn't show here) of the factorial (!) is:

x!(-x)!L(1-x,x)=1
 
You did write that (sorry, was too focused elsewhere).
 
I made a mistake in the last equation. It must be:
x!(-x)!=L(1-x,x)
This formula compares to Euler's reflection formula.
 
This is a factorial summation formula.

(x+y)!L(x+1,y)=x!y!
For example if y=0
(x+0)!L(x+1,0)=x!L(x+1,0)=x!=x!0!
If y=1
(x+1)!L(x+1,1)= (x+1)!/(x+1)=x!1!=x!
 
The next formula is about binomial coefficients.
If I use my definition of the factorial in this formula:
<br /> {x \choose y}=\frac{x\ !}{y\ !(x-y)\ !}<br />
(x, y are rational numbers) then the next equation appears :
<br /> {x \choose y}L(1+x-y,y)={x \choose y}\prod^{\infty}_{k=0}\frac{(k+x+1) (k+1)}{(k+1+x-y)(k+1+y)}={x \choose y}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}\frac{(k+x) k}{(k+x-y)(k+y)}=1<br />
For example if y=0:
<br /> {x \choose 0}L(1+x,0)={x \choose 0}\prod^{\infty}_{k=0}\frac{(k+x+1) (k+1)}{(k+1+x)(k+1)}=1<br />
Or if x=1 and y=1/2
<br /> {1 \choose \frac{1}{2} }L(1+1-\frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2})={1 \choose \frac{1}{2}}\prod^{\infty}_{k=0}\frac{(k+1+1) (k+1)}{(k+1+1-\frac{1}{2})(k+1+\frac{1}{2})}={1 \choose \frac{1}{2}}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}\frac{(k+1) k}{(k+1-\frac{1}{2})(k+\frac{1}{2})}={1 \choose \frac{1}{2}}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}\frac{(k+1) k}{(k+\frac{1}{2})^2}={1 \choose \frac{1}{2}}\frac {\pi}{4}=1<br />
Does this give the same results when using the 'gamma function'?
 
The remaining text (x=1 and y=1/2):

<br /> ={1 \choose \frac{1}{2} }L(1+1-\frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2})={1 \choose \frac{1}{2}}\frac {\pi}{4}=1<br />
 
I think I can approach the Euler–Mascheroni constant with the next formula:

<br /> - \gamma =\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}((\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}(\frac{(k+1)^\frac{1}{n} k^\frac{n-1}{n}}{(k+\frac{1}{n})})-1)n)<br />
 
  • #10
To complete the formula about the Euler-Mascheroni constant I'll add this one:

<br /> \gamma =<br /> \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}<br /> ((\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}<br /> (\frac{(k+1)^\frac{-1}{n} k^\frac{n+1}{n}}{(k-\frac{1}{n})})-1)n)<br />
 
  • #11
I also think the digamma function for
<br /> x\in\mathbb{Q}<br /> can be expressed in the next formula:

<br /> \Psi(x)=-\gamma+\lim_{n\rightarrow\pm\infty}(n(1-L(x,\frac{1}{n}))<br />
 
  • #12
Of course you have already noticed that a multiplication formula can easely be derivered from the summation formula.For n \in \mathbf{N}, 1&lt;n and x \in \mathbf{Q}

<br /> (nx) ! = \frac {{x !}^n}{\prod\limits_{k=1}^{n-1}L\left(1+ kx,x\right)}<br />
 
  • #13
I think Leo Pochhammer did a good thing by changing the factorial function from a unary operation into a binary operation.

As I see it this is the definition of the rising factorial:
<br /> <br /> n, m \in \mathbf{N} \ (starting\ with\ zero),\ x \in \mathbf{C}<br /> <br /><br /> X1: \ Pochhammer(x,0)=1 \ (definition\ one)\\<br />
<br /> X2: \ Pochhammer(x,n+1)=Pochhammer(x,n)*(x+n)\ (definition\ two)<br />
My idea is to use the symbol ! as a binary operator like this:
<br /> X1: \ x!0=1\ (definition\ one)\\<br />
<br /> X2: \ x!(n+1)=x!n*(x+n)\ (definition\ two)<br />Now a theorem can be proved bij these definitions and mathematical induction.
Pochhammer(x,n+m)=Pochhammer(x,n)*Pochhammer(x+n,m)<br /> <br />This is my formula, I prefer to use x!y instead of Pochhammer(x,y):
<br /> <br /> for\ x,y \in \mathbf{Q}<br /> <br />
<br /> <br /> x!y=Pochhammer(x,y)=\frac{1!y}{L(x,y)}<br /> <br />
 
  • #14
My next formula is also about the digamma function or more precisely the derivative of the natural logarithm of the factorial function as I defined this, the input x shift by 1. I use the notation of the digamma function \Psi(x) because I think, and maybe somebody can prove this, it is the same as my formula.\Psi(x)=\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\ln{h!^\frac{1}{h}}-\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\ln{L(x,h)^\frac{1}{h}}=-\gamma-\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\ln{L(x,h)^\frac{1}{h}}
 
  • #15
I Want to make a few more steps. Hopefully mathematically correct.<br /> \lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\ln{h!^\frac{1}{h}}=\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\frac{\ln{(0+h)!}-\ln{0!}}{h}=\Psi(1)=-\gamma<br />and
<br /> \lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\ln{L(x,h)^\frac{1}{h}}=<br /> <br /> \lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\ln\prod^{\infty}_{k=0}{\left(\frac{(k+x+h) (k+1)}{(k+x)(k+1+h)}\right)^\frac{1}{h}}=\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\sum^{\infty}_{k=0}{\ln\left(\frac{(k+x+h) (k+1)}{(k+x)(k+1+h)}\right)^\frac{1}{h}}=\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\sum^{\infty}_{k=0}{\frac{\ln(k+x+h)-\ln(k+x)}{h}-\frac{\ln(k+1+h)-\ln(k+1)}{h}}=\sum^{\infty}_{k=0}{\lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\frac{\ln(k+x+h)-\ln(k+x)}{h}-\frac{\ln(k+1+h)-\ln(k+1)}{h}}=\sum^{\infty}_{k=0}{\frac{1}{k+x}-\frac{1}{k+1}}<br />
 
  • #16
I started with a definition of the factorial function for x is a rational number. Then I could derive a formula that gives the derivative of the natural logarithm of the factorial function (shifted by one this match with the digamma function). I think and tell me if I am wrong, it is easy to derive 'the Weierstrass representation‏ of the gamma function' by integrating this function and so on.
<br /> <br /> \Psi(x)=-\gamma +\sum^{\infty}_{k=0}{\left(\frac{1}{k+1}-\frac{1}{k+x}\right)}<br /> <br /> \Rightarrow<br /> <br />
<br /> <br /> \ln\Gamma(x)=-\gamma x+\sum^{\infty}_{k=0}{\left(\frac{x-1}{k+1}-\ln\frac{k+x}{k+1}\right)}+c<br /> <br /> \Rightarrow<br /> <br />
<br /> <br /> \Gamma(x)=e^{-\gamma x}e^{\sum\limits^{\infty}_{k=0}{\left(\frac{x-1}{k+1}-\ln\frac{k+x}{k+1}\right)}}e^c=<br /> <br />
<br /> e^{-\gamma x+c}\prod^{\infty}_{k=0}{e^{\left(\frac{x-1}{k+1}\right)}\left(\frac{k+1}{k+x}\right)}=<br /> <br />
<br /> <br /> e^{-\gamma x+c}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}{e^{\left(\frac{x-1}{k}\right)}\left(\frac{k}{k+x-1}\right)}=<br /> <br />
According to the definition
<br /> <br /> \Gamma(1)=1\\<br /> <br /> c=\gamma\\<br /> <br /> \Gamma(x)=e^{-\gamma x+\gamma}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}{e^{\frac{x-1}{k}}\frac{k}{k+x-1}}<br /> <br />
<br /> <br /> \Gamma(x+1)=<br /> <br /> e^{-\gamma x}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}{e^{\frac{x}{k}}\frac{k}{k+x}}<br /> <br />
According to the definition
<br /> <br /> \Gamma(x+1)=\Gamma(x)x\\<br /> <br /> \Gamma(x)=\frac{e^{-\gamma x}}{x}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}{e^{\frac{x}{k}}\frac{k}{k+x}}<br /> <br />
<br /> <br /> \Gamma(x)=\frac{e^{-\gamma x}}{x}\prod^{\infty}_{k=1}{e^{\frac{x}{k}}(1+\frac{x}{k})^{-1}}<br /> <br />
 
  • #17
I don't see where this is leading to - we are not a website to host a bunch of equations, especially without proof.
I closed the thread.
 

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