The Mysteries of the Metaperiodic Table

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structure of atoms, particularly focusing on electron configurations, the nature of elements, and the concept of excited states. Participants explore why electrons do not always occupy the lowest energy levels and the implications of electron arrangements on the properties of elements, especially in the context of lanthanides and hypothetical scenarios involving electron placement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses curiosity about why some elements do not pack their electrons as close to the nucleus as possible, suggesting that inner electrons may also define an element.
  • Another participant states that elements are defined by the number of protons, while excited states of atoms can have electrons in higher-energy configurations.
  • A participant explains that electrons minimize energy through their arrangement, influenced by factors such as electron-electron repulsion, which complicates the energy levels of orbitals.
  • Discussion includes the idea of creating a hydrogen atom with an electron in a 7p orbital, speculating that this could result in a new element with distinct properties.
  • One participant mentions the existence of excited states, where atoms can have electrons in higher energy configurations, and references metastable helium as an example.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of elements based on protons and the concept of excited states, but there is no consensus on the implications of electron arrangements or the hypothetical creation of new elements with altered electron configurations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of electron interactions, the short-lived nature of excited states, and the challenges in separating lanthanides based on chemical properties.

Antymattar
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Hello. I recently read Theodore Gray`s book "The Elements" and was extremely fascinated by the small world of atoms. I was fascinated about the structure of atoms and wanted to know more about why and how they are composed.

After studying a bit I hit a bit of a curiosity. Why don some elements atoms don`t pack their electrons in a way so that they are not always as close to the core as possible? Is there an explanation to this? I was also very interested ion the lanthanide section of the periodic table. I heard that an element is defined by their outer ring of electrons, thought, that can clearely not be the case considering that the lanthanides have the same amount of electrons on the outer ring. So one must conclude that the inner electrons also define the element in some way.

Now what does this have to do with the title? I was wondering, would it be possible to assemble atoms in a way that you can define in what ring the electrons are located. Would it be possible to make a hydrogen atom but have it`s electron be somwhere in the 7p orbit?

If so then I soppose that that would create a completely new element with new properties.

I appologise for any bad grammar you may come across(I`m Latvian)
 
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Wow! that's some good stuff there.
 
Antymattar said:
Would it be possible to make a hydrogen atom but have it`s electron be somwhere in the 7p orbit?

If so then I soppose that that would create a completely new element with new properties.

Elements are determined by the number of protons (the atomic number). An atom with an electron in a higher-energy state is called an excited atom. (If the number of electrons doesn't match the number of protons, it's called an ion; if you adjust the number of neutrons, you create different isotopes.)
 
Antymattar said:
After studying a bit I hit a bit of a curiosity. Why don some elements atoms don`t pack their electrons in a way so that they are not always as close to the core as possible? Is there an explanation to this? I was also very interested ion the lanthanide section of the periodic table. I heard that an element is defined by their outer ring of electrons, thought, that can clearely not be the case considering that the lanthanides have the same amount of electrons on the outer ring. So one must conclude that the inner electrons also define the element in some way.

Electrons pack in such a way as to minimize their energy. While distance from the nucleus is one important factor determining the energies of the orbitals, it is not the only factor. In atoms containing more than one electron, electron-electron repulsion also plays a role in determining the energies of the orbitals. These interactions are responsible for the fact that, say the 4s orbital has a lower energy than the 3d orbital even though the electrons in the 3d orbital are, on average, closer to the nucleus than electrons in the 4s orbital.

As Mapes mentioned, the identity of an element is by definition defined by the number of protons in its nucleus. However, the chemical properties of an atom are defined by the electronic structure of the outer shell of electrons. Therefore, atoms with similar outer electron configurations, such as the lanthanides, will have very similar chemical properties. In fact, the chemistries of the lanthanides are so similar that it is notoriously difficult to separate them from one another. In most cases, we cannot separate them based on chemical properties; rather, our separation methods must be based on their physical properties like the sizes of the atoms (and their ions).
 
There are actually atoms like you describe. We call them excited states. When an atom abosrbs a photon it electrons arranges in a higher energy configuration. They are usually very shortlived and a photon is given off again. However, there are exceptions. Helium can be excited to a state with the electon spins parallell which can be kept for long periods, minutes if I remember correctly. It is called metastable helium. Google it, I am sure you'll find it interesting.
 

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