The world is unfair and all so why have an offspring?

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The discussion centers on the paradox of procreation in an unfair world, with participants questioning why people choose to have children despite societal inequities. Many argue that the instinct to reproduce is deeply ingrained and often overshadows concerns about fairness. The conversation also touches on the idea that fairness is a subjective concept, often misinterpreted, and that life has always been fraught with challenges. Some express that bringing children into the world can be seen as a way to foster change and share experiences, while others emphasize personal choice and the desire for legacy. Ultimately, the dialogue reflects a complex interplay of human instinct, societal expectations, and individual values regarding parenthood.
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The world is an unfair place, even in well off areas such as America and certainly not the most ideal of places. So why do want continue to want offsprings?

I think that the answer is that the people who do have offsprings don't care about the unfairness.
 
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? People have sex, sex leads to babies. When people are having sex they don't care about the 'fairness' of the world.
 
Not all people have sex just for the f*** of it. Some people actually have sex to procreate. I believe that is what the OP is referring to.

As to the OP, I personally agree with you, perhaps is something that's been wired into our brains from times immemorial, something we have to do.
 
Cyrus said:
? People have sex, sex leads to babies. When people are having sex they don't care about the 'fairness' of the world.

fair point. But there is the option of abortion or other methods of preventing babies.
 
Why do you breath air? Knowing the world is so unfair, why go through all the tyranny another day? Why not just hold your breath permanently?
 
tgt said:
The world is an unfair place, even in well off areas such as America and certainly not the most ideal of places. So why do want continue to want offsprings?

So that you are not the last one to suffer? That's the only way you can make it more fair, share unafirness with others.

I am saying such things every day and then my neighbors think I am a pessimist. I call it realism :wink:
 
At what time in the history of man has life been fair?
 
tgt said:
I think that the answer is that the people who do have offsprings don't care about the unfairness.
In my case, that is true. I often tell my kids, "I'm not into 'fair'". I actually think fairness is a rather worthless and immature concept.

It is generally also misapplied by children and liberals who think that the definition of "fair" is them getting whatever they want whenever they want it instead of them getting what they have earned.
 
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My kids tell me that my generation screwed things up and that they are going to make the world more fair. I seem to recall telling my parents something like that too.
 
  • #10
What does fairness have to do with anything? And what exactly do you mean by fair? Usually when I hear children crying, "It's not fair!" what they really mean is "I didn't get what I want!"
 
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  • #11
What has catapulted early cavemen to a modern world with technological wonders isn't a better cognitive ability but rather a gradual process of idea exchange. As a result our technology has evolved but our primitive brains have not. In fact the development of our brains is glacial, if not stagnant since human behavior is almost identical to early recorded history.

A common reoccurring theme in history is dominance vs. submission. It exists in all levels of society, whether individually, in a group, a tribe, or a nation. And generates the concept of "survival of the fittest." The point is to procure resources which will aide your survival. The problem is our primitive brain doesn't know when to stop.

So yeah, it's not fair as in "I have more than you." It's also not fair as in fighting other tribes and stealing their land, killing, raping, and enslaving them. I think we will be doing this for eons to come.
 
  • #12
The original post doesn't make much sense to me. Why would a rating of how "fair" the world is affect my choice of whether or not to have a child? Do you mean to impy that I am somehow punishing the child by bringing her or him into existence?

If there's something I don't like about the world, I have the power to change it - maybe not completely, or instantly, but I can change that aspect of the world in myself and teach my children to act in the way I see fit. (Of course whether or not they choose to listen is their decision.)
 
  • #13
That's kind of like saying, why don't you commit suicide if life isn't fair.
 
  • #14
tgt said:
The world is an unfair place, even in well off areas such as America and certainly not the most ideal of places. So why do want continue to want offsprings?
Ask yourself if the alternative is better. Is oblivion for the human race better than prospering in an unfair world?
 
  • #15
Bringing a child into the world now is a heck of a lot better than 10,000 years ago. I never get people that think we are living in such terrible times.

Name a "good" time, and justify why it was a better time than now.
 
  • #16
Evo said:
Name a "good" time, and justify why it was a better time than now.

When we were teenagers. Do I still have to explain, or is it obvious enough? :wink:
 
  • #17
Because we (PF members and other smart people) NEED to have kids to balance out the idjits in the world...
 
  • #18
Borek said:
When we were teenagers. Do I still have to explain, or is it obvious enough? :wink:

Yep, when I was 15 and still knew everything. :biggrin:
 
  • #19
Fairness has nothing to do with procreation. Extremely terrible circumstances are necessary before one should decide not to procreate in the interest of an offspring's well being.

I want to procreate because I want conscious beings that experience the world very similar to the way I do to live and spread my genes.

I love my life. Life is the greatest gift one person can give to another, as a parent to a child. How petty do notions of 'fairness' seem when viewed like this?
 
  • #20
Evo said:
Bringing a child into the world now is a heck of a lot better than 10,000 years ago. I never get people that think we are living in such terrible times.

Name a "good" time, and justify why it was a better time than now.
1958-1963 Small towns, beaches, few people around, and I didn't know about all the terrible things in the world.
 
  • #21
My wife and I made a conscious decision not to have children. We both came from large families of very modest means and we wanted to live a simpler life dedicated to one another. It might seem odd, but it made sense to us at the time and still does. When we wanted kids around, we borrowed them from our relatives and gave their parents an evening or a weekend to spend with each other. Our house has always been well-stocked with puzzles and non-electronic games, and kids are fascinated by astronomy, which I have been engaged in for decades. When we had ferrets, they were a real draw for the kids too, and some of the kids drove me to distraction mining my music collection. Some of my favorite old albums were their favorites too, including Simon and Garfunkel, Hendrix, early Jackson Browne, Bonnie Raitt... My wife and I never had kids, but we've helped raise quite a few.
 
  • #22
Astronuc said:
1958-1963 Small towns, beaches, few people around, and I didn't know about all the terrible things in the world.
Ignorance of the world is no excuse. Did you forget the Cold War? :-p
 
  • #23
Evo said:
Ignorance of the world is no excuse. Did you forget the Cold War? :-p
I didn't know about it then. I was only concerned about simple things. I didn't worry about the horrible things adults did to each other.

I forgot to mention the garden and the chickens, and the goats who lived next door.

In the first town I lived, there was a stone fountain in the park down by the beach. It changed colours. I thought somehow it was magic.

Where I lived there was no Cold War - there was no war. It was pretty quiet actually, except for the occasional crop duster in the hills and the waves breaking, or pounding when a storm blew in.
 
  • #24
Evo said:
Ignorance of the world is no excuse. Did you forget the Cold War? :-p
In the late 50's/early 60's we were taught to huddle under our desks when we heard the air-raid siren. Ironically, we were less than 1/10th mile downstream of the largest hydro dam in the state - the fattest non-military target available in the state. Taking out that dam would have wiped out every river-town downstream, including the state capitol.
 
  • #25
turbo-1 said:
In the late 50's/early 60's we were taught to huddle under our desks when we heard the air-raid siren. Ironically, we were less than 1/10th mile downstream of the largest hydro dam in the state - the fattest non-military target available in the state. Taking out that dam would have wiped out every river-town downstream, including the state capitol.
Exactly, while we were learning to survive a nuclear attack by covering the back of our necks with our arm, where was astronuc?
 
  • #26
Evo said:
Exactly, while we were learning to survive a nuclear attack by covering the back of our necks with our arm, where was astronuc?
He was living in a country that didn't have a dog in the fight.
 
  • #27
turbo-1 said:
He was living in a country that didn't have a dog in the fight.

He was using mathematical formulas to predict the invention of PF, while listening to CCR and drinking moonshine :P
 
  • #29
  • #30
Evo said:
Flood a portion of rural Maine? Pffftt! :-p I lived next to NASA!
By the way, taking out that dam would have trashed all the bridges from the dam to the coast, effectively cutting off Dow AF base in Bangor from supply, except by air. Why would the Russians have bothered trying to take out a NASA facility when they could have taken out the biggest electrical generation unit in New England and wiped out the state government at the same time? During WWII that dam was protected by anti-aircraft guns, despite the fact that Hitler had ignored his advisers and neglected to build long-range bombers. Fat target. If the Russians could have hit Dow, NORAD's biggest NE B-52 bomber-base would be out of commission and the next most profitable hit (in terms of high damage) would have been the dam.
 
  • #31
turbo-1 said:
In the late 50's/early 60's we were taught to huddle under our desks when we heard the air-raid siren. Ironically, we were less than 1/10th mile downstream of the largest hydro dam in the state - the fattest non-military target available in the state. Taking out that dam would have wiped out every river-town downstream, including the state capitol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6eQkBCLkIA"
 
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  • #32
Birth rates are down in America. Quite apparently we are going through a historic change in attitude about having children.
 
  • #33
for a bunch of smart people you sure don't infer well. obviously OP wasn't talking about fairness literally. i think the question was : "world sucks why have kids". and my answer would be why indeed.
 
  • #34
Considering that the term fair is based off a model created by limited human logic, fairness doesn't exist in reality. The world is neither fair nor unfair, it just is. You procreate or do anything because you want to, period.
 
  • #35
ice109 said:
for a bunch of smart people you sure don't infer well. obviously OP wasn't talking about fairness literally. i think the question was : "world sucks why have kids". and my answer would be why indeed.
I don't see how your paraphrasing changes anything whatsoever.
 
  • #36
DaveC426913 said:
I don't see how your paraphrasing changes anything whatsoever.

I think he meant to offend us.
 
  • #37
Evo said:
Exactly, while we were learning to survive a nuclear attack by covering the back of our necks with our arm, where was astronuc?
:biggrin: On the other side of the planet, 9,000+ miles (circumferentially) from Houston, in a nice quiet corner of the world.

I didn't learn about civil defence until 1966, after I started 4th grade in Houston. Didn't make sense given the destructive power of thermonuclear weapons, but the general population didn't seem to have much clue about the details.

In 6th grade, I was put on the school safety patrol - by meeting the requirements of academic standing and excellent conduct. :rolleyes:
 
  • #38
Astronuc said:
In 6th grade, I was put on the school safety patrol - by meeting the requirements of academic standing and excellent conduct. :rolleyes:
I was also on the safety patrol, as a punishment for hating to get up early. It was called "Hall Patrol".
 
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  • #39
turbo-1 said:
In the late 50's/early 60's we were taught to huddle under our desks when we heard the air-raid siren. Ironically, we were less than 1/10th mile downstream of the largest hydro dam in the state - the fattest non-military target available in the state. Taking out that dam would have wiped out every river-town downstream, including the state capitol.

Hmm...maybe you should have been learning how to use your desks as a flotation device? :biggrin:
 
  • #41
Evo said:
I was also on the safety patrol, as a punishment for hating to get up early. It was called "Hall Patrol".
:smile: I did the "Hall Patrol" thing during fire drills, but the main duty was "Crossing Guard" at road intersections at the school boundaries. We had to hold 10 ft bamboo poles (with orange flags on them) parallel to the cross walks, so that kids could cross the streets.
 
  • #42
Astronuc said:
:smile: I did the "Hall Patrol" thing during fire drills, but the main duty was "Crossing Guard" at road intersections at the school boundaries. We had to hold 10 ft bamboo poles (with orange flags on them) parallel to the cross walks, so that kids could cross the streets.

Our safety patrol had to stand with their hands out, two across, to block intersections. I was an alternate because there were too many kids in my class who qualified so we couldn't all do it (only so many of those bright orange belt/harness things to go around). After my friends started to do it, I realized I was the lucky one for getting "stuck" as an alternate...they had to get up extra early to get to school before the other kids, and then had to spend most of the morning while all the other kids arrived holding their arms up...they had very tired arms. :smile:
 
  • #43
Moonbear said:
Hmm...maybe you should have been learning how to use your desks as a flotation device? :biggrin:
That would have been educational! Floating down the Kennebec River in a raging flood watching the water destroy towns and cities. I have a sneaking suspicion, though, that being only 1/10th of a mile from ground zero of even a small thermonuclear device might have it hard for me to "pull myself together" enough to enjoy the float. It's hard to keep one's head in such situations.
 
  • #44
turbo-1 said:
It's hard to keep one's head in such situations.

Literally. :smile:
 
  • #45
To answer the OP, we have kids so they can have as much fun as we did growing up. :rolleyes:
 
  • #46
Moonbear said:
Our safety patrol had to stand with their hands out, two across, to block intersections. I was an alternate because there were too many kids in my class who qualified so we couldn't all do it (only so many of those bright orange belt/harness things to go around). After my friends started to do it, I realized I was the lucky one for getting "stuck" as an alternate...they had to get up extra early to get to school before the other kids, and then had to spend most of the morning while all the other kids arrived holding their arms up...they had very tired arms. :smile:
Oh my, we were the original "Geek Squad, the "Nerd Herd". :redface:
 
  • #47
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  • #48
Evo said:
You missed those atomic drills didn't you MIH?

Good thing you have found them so know you know how to avoid danger from an atomic blast.

I liked the "bad sunburn" analogy.
 
  • #49
turbo-1 said:
My wife and I made a conscious decision not to have children. We both came from large families of very modest means and we wanted to live a simpler life dedicated to one another. It might seem odd, but it made sense to us at the time and still does. When we wanted kids around, we borrowed them from our relatives and gave their parents an evening or a weekend to spend with each other. Our house has always been well-stocked with puzzles and non-electronic games, and kids are fascinated by astronomy, which I have been engaged in for decades. When we had ferrets, they were a real draw for the kids too, and some of the kids drove me to distraction mining my music collection. Some of my favorite old albums were their favorites too, including Simon and Garfunkel, Hendrix, early Jackson Browne, Bonnie Raitt... My wife and I never had kids, but we've helped raise quite a few.

That's smart. Nowadays, the younger generation are even more sneaky. Many choose to be single and when they need the opposite sex, they just take them out for a date. Probably, the majority aren't like that but it's getting more popular with shows like the 'Sex and the city'. What is the world coming to?
 
  • #50
Astronuc said:
To answer the OP, we have kids so they can have as much fun as we did growing up. :rolleyes:

But when they become adults they'll realize what you've (the parents) got them into. A deep, inescapable hole (unless if you kill yourself).
 

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