Thermodynamic state having 2 degrees of freedom (i.e., for properties)

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the concept of thermodynamic states with two degrees of freedom (DOF) and the relationship between fundamental properties such as pressure, volume, temperature, entropy, and internal energy. It highlights that with five properties, having two DOF implies three constraint equations, with the First Law of Thermodynamics and the Ideal Gas Law providing two of them. The conversation introduces Gibbs' Phase Rule to explore additional constraints, noting that the topology of the system is two-dimensional, allowing for a maximum of three phases at a single point. The discussion also emphasizes that true-extensive properties, specifically temperature and pressure, dictate the DOF outside of saturation states, while questioning the exclusion of intensive properties from this framework. Overall, the conversation seeks to uncover deeper reasons behind these thermodynamic relationships.
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What is the underlying reason that thermodynamic state has 2 degrees of freedom - i.e., that any 2 properties (saturated state excepted) completely determines the state?
I'm trying to delve into the reason why this is so. It seems that there are 5 fundamental properties:

P - Pressure
V - Volume (specific)
T - Temperature
S - Entropy (specific)
U - Internal Energy

(Yes, there are other types of energy, but they are fully determinable from these 5 - e.g., Enthalpy: H = U + PV)

Since there are 5 such possible domain variables, having a net of 2 DOF means that there must be 3 constraint equations. The 1st Law of Thermodynamics provides 1 of the equations:

dU = δQ - δW = T dS - P dV

so what are the other 2?

I can see for an ideal gas that the Ideal Gas law provides another:

p V = R T

but even for this model, there must be yet another.
 
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Do you know about "Gibbs' Phase Rule"? That might help to answer your question
 
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Master1022 said:
Do you know about "Gibbs' Phase Rule"? That might help to answer your question
So it seems that because the the 1st Law of Thermodynamics involves only 2 true-extensive properties T & P (i.e., specific Volume or Entropy is not a true-extensive property), the topology is as per a 2-D domain, with the result that phases are regions within that domain, and thus a maximum of 3 phases can exist at single points, with there being 0 DOF of those true-extensive properties there (e.g., the triple point has no DOF - it is a singular point), and such that along points at which there are 2 phases (i.e., saturation paths), there is 1 DOF of true-extensive properties (e.g., saturated water liquid/vapor has a specific temperature for a given pressure and vice-versa), and thus 2 DOF when inside a solitary phase.

However, this idea can be simplified such that the number of true-extensive properties is the number of DOF outside of a saturation state. But this doesn't explain why intensive properties are not part of the DOF. I think there is a deeper reason here.
 
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