Thermodynamics:based on first law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving an adiabatic steam nozzle where steam expands from an initial pressure and temperature to a lower pressure. Participants are tasked with finding the exit velocity of the steam, given specific enthalpy and entropy values, as well as the nozzle's isentropic efficiency. The focus is on applying the first law of thermodynamics and understanding the implications of isentropic efficiency in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the role of isentropic efficiency in calculating exit velocity, questioning how it relates to the given enthalpy values.
  • Another participant clarifies that isentropic efficiency can be used to derive the exit enthalpy (h2) from the inlet enthalpy (h1) and the isentropic enthalpy (h2s).
  • There is a repeated concern about whether the provided exit enthalpy is h2 or h2s, with one participant noting that assuming it to be h2s leads to an incorrect exit velocity calculation.
  • Participants discuss the need to calculate h2s using the entropy at the inlet condition and the properties at the exit pressure, emphasizing that the exit steam may be a mixture of vapor and liquid.
  • One participant requests more detailed explanations and calculations to clarify the confusion surrounding the enthalpy values and their application in the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and roles of h1, h2, and h2s, but there is significant disagreement and confusion regarding the interpretation of the given exit enthalpy and its implications for calculating the exit velocity. The discussion remains unresolved as participants seek clarification and further calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding the definitions of enthalpy in the context of isentropic processes and the assumptions involved in the problem, such as neglecting kinetic energy at the inlet and assuming equilibrium conditions at the exit. There are unresolved questions about the calculations and the relationships between the various enthalpy values.

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anisha
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Homework Statement


In an adiabatic steam nozzle,steam is expanded from 10 bar and 473k to an exit pressure of 5 bar.nozzle has an isentropic efficiency of 90%.neglect kinetic energy at the inlet.assuming equilibrium condition at exit,find the velocity of nozzle at exit? given data : i)at nozzle inlet: enthalpy=2828KJ/Kg ; entropy = 6.70KJ/KgK
ii)saturated liquid properties at nozzle exit: enthalpy=640 KJ/Kg;entropy=1.86KJ/KgK
iii)saturated vapour properties at nozzle exit: enthalpy=2750 KJ/Kg;entropy=6.82KJ/KgK

Homework Equations


energy equation for nozzle: (h1/2)+((c1)^2/2)=(h2/2)+((c2)^2/2)
isentropic efficiency of nozzle : (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)
where h2s is isentropic enthalpy at nozzle exit

The Attempt at a Solution


i didn't understand what is the use of giving the efficiency here and how it's related in finding the exit velocity.the isentropic enthalpy i found is h2s=2741.333KJ/Kg,h1=2828KJ/Kg,h2=2750KJ/Kg (given).the correct answer is482 m/s
please do help me ,any hint will be of great use and appreciated!:smile:
 
Last edited:
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anisha said:

Homework Statement


In an adiabatic steam nozzle,steam is expanded from 10 bar and 473k to an exit pressure of 5 bar.nozzle has an isentropic efficiency of 90%.neglect kinetic energy at the inlet.assuming equilibrium condition at exit,find the velocity of nozzle at exit? given data : i)at nozzle inlet: enthalpy=2828KJ/Kg ; entropy = 6.70KJ/KgK
ii)saturated liquid properties at nozzle exit: enthalpy=640 KJ/Kg;entropy=1.86KJ/KgK
iii)saturated vapour properties at nozzle exit: enthalpy=2750 KJ/Kg;entropy=6.82KJ/KgK

Homework Equations


energy equation for nozzle: (h1/2)+((c1)^2/2)=(h2/2)+((c2)^2/2)
isentropic efficiency of nozzle : (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)
where h2s is isentropic enthalpy at nozzle exit

The Attempt at a Solution


i didn't understand what is the use of giving the efficiency here and how it's related in finding the exit velocity.the isentropic enthalpy i found is h2s=2741.333KJ/Kg,h1=2828KJ/Kg,h2=2750KJ/Kg (given).the correct answer is482 m/s
please do help me ,any hint will be of great use and appreciated!:smile:

With regard to the isentropic efficiency:

η = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)

Now, if η = 1, that would imply η = 1 = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s), which would only be true if h2 = h2s.

If η = 0.9, then you are given a hint how to calculate h2 given h1 and h2s. :wink:
 
Thanks,but there is no h2s given,instead h2 value is there.i am totally confused now.
 
anisha said:
Thanks,but there is no h2s given,instead h2 value is there.i am totally confused now.

You found h2s=2741.333KJ/Kg

anisha said:
isentropic efficiency of nozzle : (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)
where h2s is isentropic enthalpy at nozzle exit

Using this formula, and the fact that you were told that the isentropic efficiency = 90 %, can you put
 
SteamKing said:
With regard to the isentropic efficiency:

η = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)

Now, if η = 1, that would imply η = 1 = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s), which would only be true if h2 = h2s.

If η = 0.9, then you are given a hint how to calculate h2 given h1 and h2s. :wink:
 
SteamKing said:
With regard to the isentropic efficiency:

η = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)

Now, if η = 1, that would imply η = 1 = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s), which would only be true if h2 = h2s.

If η = 0.9, then you are given a hint how to calculate h2 given h1 and h2s. :wink:
 
SteamKing said:
With regard to the isentropic efficiency:

η = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)

Now, if η = 1, that would imply η = 1 = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s), which would only be true if h2 = h2s.

If η = 0.9, then you are given a hint how to calculate h2 given h1 and h2s. :wink:
sir,if i take given exit enthalpy to be h2s then my answer is 374 m/s as exit velocity were as the actual one is 482 m/s.
 
Can anyone tell me whether given enthalpy at the exit is h2s or h2,cause if it's h2s it's not giving me the right answer
 
anisha said:
Can anyone tell me whether given enthalpy at the exit is h2s or h2,cause if it's h2s it's not giving me the right answer
h2s is the enthalpy at the nozzle exit assuming that the expansion is isentropic, which the problem statement tells you it is not. In order to find h2s, you use the value of entropy at the inlet condition, namely s1 = 6.70 kJ/kg-K, and the saturated vapor and liquid conditions at the exit pressure of 5 bar, as given in the problem statement. Due to expansion thru the nozzle, the steam exiting may be a mixture of vapor and saturated liquid.

Having found h2s and knowing the isentropic efficiency of the nozzle, you should be able to find the enthalpy at the exit of the nozzle, h2.

In order to keep going back and forth on this point, please post your calculations, not just the final velocity of the steam. :smile:
 
  • #10
kindly explain in more detail!
 

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