Thermodynamics: Gas pressure and change in volume

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving the calculation of gas pressure and changes in volume when heating a gas under different conditions. Participants explore methods for solving the problem, including the application of specific heat capacities and the ideal gas law.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a method for calculating the initial pressure of the gas using the ideal gas law, expressing uncertainty about the correctness of their calculations.
  • Another participant questions the value of the specific heat capacity at constant volume (Cv) and suggests an alternative calculation method.
  • Some participants propose that the question assumes the gas behaves ideally, which influences their calculations.
  • There is a correction regarding the use of heat flow equations, with one participant adjusting their values for Cp and Cv based on the heat energy provided.
  • Another participant points out an error in the application of Boyle's law, suggesting that it was stated incorrectly, which may have led to discrepancies in calculated volumes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct values for specific heat capacities and the application of Boyle's law. There is no consensus on the correct method for calculating the change in volume or the initial pressure of the gas.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations depend on assumptions about the ideal gas behavior, and participants have not resolved the discrepancies in their values for specific heat capacities.

Mingsliced
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Homework Statement


Just want to check that I've used the correct method for this thermodynamics question I've been set. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

So I have 0.5kg of gas held in a rigid container of volume 0.25m^3 at a temperature of 20°C. 20kJ of heat energy is required to raise the temperature of the gas to 60°C.

When the same mass of gas is heated at a constant pressure, 30kJ of heat energy is required to create the same temperature rise.

I need to find:
ii) The initial pressure of the gas.
iii) The change in volume of the gas when it was heated at constant pressure.

I've already calculated the specific heat capacities of the gas at constant pressure and constant volume and believe this is correct:

R = (Cp = 1.5kJ/kG K) - (Cv = 0.75kJ/kG K)

2. The attempt at a solution

ii) V = 0.25m^3
T1 = 20°C (273 + 20 =293K)
T2 = 60°C (273 + 60 = 333K)
R = 0.75kJ/kG K
Q = 20kJ & 30kJ

Initial Pressure: PV = MRT

Transposed: P = MRT/V

P = 0.5 * (0.75*10^3) * 293/0.25

P = 439500 N/M^-2

iii) PV=MRT

Transposed: V = MRT/P

V = 0.5 * (0.75*10^3) * 333 / 439500

V = 124875 / 439500

V = 0.28m^3

Alternatively, I believe part iii) can be calculated with Boyle's Law (V1T1=V2T2), especially as the question says 'constant pressure'. This gives an answer of 0.22m^3. Not quite sure which would be the correct method.

Thanks for any help in advance!
 
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Mingsliced said:
So I have 0.5kg of gas held in a rigid container of volume 0.25m^3 at a temperature of 20°C. 20kJ of heat energy is required to raise the temperature of the gas to 60°C.

When the same mass of gas is heated at a constant pressure, 30kJ of heat energy is required to create the same temperature rise.

I need to find:
ii) The initial pressure of the gas.
iii) The change in volume of the gas when it was heated at constant pressure.

I've already calculated the specific heat capacities of the gas at constant pressure and constant volume and believe this is correct:

R = (Cp = 1.5kJ/kG K) - (Cv = 0.75kJ/kG K)
How do you get that value for Cv? It takes 20KJ of heat flow to raise the temperature of .5 kg by 40K. So it takes 40KJ to raise 1Kg by the same amount, or 1KJ/Kg K.
2. The attempt at a solution

ii) V = 0.25m^3
T1 = 20°C (273 + 20 =293K)
T2 = 60°C (273 + 60 = 333K)
R = 0.75kJ/kG K
Q = 20kJ & 30kJ

Initial Pressure: PV = MRT
Are we to assume the question states that this is an ideal gas?

Your method appears to be correct. Once you determine the value for R correctly, you should get the right answer.

AM
 
Ah, I think I can see where I've gone wrong...

I was using Q = M * Cp (T2 - T1) and Q = Cv (T2 - T1), but using Q=30kj instead of 20kj.

So Cp = 1kj/kg K

and Cv = 0.5kj/kg K

Therefore R = 0.5kj/kg K

Is this correct? Thankyou :)

Yes, I believe that it is stated as an ideal gas.
 
Mingsliced said:
Ah, I think I can see where I've gone wrong...

I was using Q = M * Cp (T2 - T1) and Q = Cv (T2 - T1), but using Q=30kj instead of 20kj.

So Cp = 1kj/kg K

and Cv = 0.5kj/kg K

Therefore R = 0.5kj/kg K
You got the right answer but your values for Cp and Cv are wrong.

##C_v = Q_v/M\Delta T = 20KJ/(.5Kg * 40K)##
##C_p = Q_p/M\Delta T = 30KJ/(.5Kg * 40K)##

AM
 
Ah excellent, thanks very much!
 
Cp=1.5 and Cv equals 1 yeah?
 
In your first post, you stated Boyle's law incorrectly. If you had stated it correctly, you would have gotten the final volumes to match.
 

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