Third Equation Of Motion Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the derivation of the third equation of motion, specifically the equation v² = v₀² + 2ax. Participants explore how this equation can be derived from other kinematic equations and discuss the conditions under which it can be applied. The conversation includes aspects of theoretical understanding and practical application in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation of the third equation of motion and seeks clarity on when to use it in problem-solving.
  • Another participant suggests deriving the equation from the equations v = u + at and x = (u + v)t/2 by eliminating time.
  • A different participant emphasizes the importance of understanding derivations and expresses a desire for analytical explanations.
  • One participant provides a detailed step-by-step derivation of the equation, demonstrating how to manipulate the original equations to arrive at the third equation of motion.
  • A participant questions whether the equation is limited to finding speed/velocity at a specific position or if it can be manipulated to find other unknown variables.
  • Another participant clarifies that the equation relates four quantities and can be used to find any unknown if three of the values are known, highlighting its versatility in various scenarios.
  • A note is made that time is absent in the final equation, suggesting that solving for time in the original equations is a useful strategy for derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the derivation process and the application of the third equation of motion, but there is some uncertainty regarding its limitations and the best methods for understanding and applying the equations in different contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express a desire for more analytical explanations, indicating that the understanding of the derivation may depend on individual learning styles and prior knowledge. There is also a recognition that the absence of time in the final equation is significant for its application.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning kinematics, educators seeking to clarify the derivation of motion equations, and anyone interested in the application of physics principles in problem-solving contexts.

IronBrain
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I am wondering how is the third equatio of motion derived, I was reading a text on my physics course which it is very unclear how they exactly they arrived to this equation, knowing this from the book, using the equations for velocity and position, you can combine them to get 3 new equations of motion, I know this equations are important to know because I recently got stuck on a question and would have never know to use the third equation to find an correct answer

Third Equation Of Motion
[itex]v^2 = v_{0}^2 + 2ax[/itex]

v = final velocity, v_0 = initial velocity, a = acceleration x = position

Said equations from text to be "combined" and with eliminated the variable, t, time to arrive at the velocity equation above

[itex]v = v_0 + at[/itex]

[itex]x = v_{0}(t) + \frac{at^2}{2}[/itex]

I know there just some simple algebra being used here, but someone who has just general knowledge of the motion of along a straight plane equations of the sort, more specifically, acceleration, velocity, position, going into a physics course for the first time how do you know when/which "extra" equation to use?
 
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I would derive that equation from
v = u + at
and
x = (u+v)t/2 (distance = average velocity times time)
eliminate t
 
Thanks for the input, I am just a very trivial person, I like to know how things are derived, kind of biting me in the read in my subjects of interest, maths, etc. something are the way they are. I just want to know when/how to derive these things with proper analytically explanation.
 
OK, then: equation (1):
[tex]v = v_0 + at[/tex]
can be solved for [itex]t[/itex] as
[tex]t = \frac{v - v_0}{a}[/tex]
Then substitute into equation (2):
[tex]x = v_{0}t + \frac{at^2}{2}[/tex]
to get
[tex]x = v_{0}\biggl(\frac{v - v_0}{a}\biggr) + \frac{a}{2}\biggl(\frac{v - v_0}{a}\biggr)^2[/tex]
Expanding those products gives
[tex]x = \frac{v v_0 - v_0^2}{a} + \frac{v^2 - 2v v_0 + v_0^2}{2a}[/tex]
Multiply the first term by 2 on top and bottom to get a common denominator,
[tex]x = \frac{2v v_0 - 2v_0^2}{2a} + \frac{v^2 - 2v v_0 + v_0^2}{2a}[/tex]
add the fractions,
[tex]x = \frac{v^2 - v_0^2}{2a}[/tex]
and rearrange into
[tex]v^2 = v_0^2 + 2ax[/tex]

Any time you're confused about the derivation of an equation like that, try to do it yourself. If necessary, look up how it's done in some reference (like a book), and then once you've seen it, close the book and try to do it yourself. The more you practice, the better you'll get.
 
Thanks! The exact derivation I was looking for. Also, thanks for the tips, I tried deriving the equation myself ,and, looking up google for some quick references, but that was a no go just gave the equations themselves.I was unsure of what to substitute, however, is this equation only limited to finding the speed/velocity at some arbitrary position value that is set as the maximum height that has a constant acceleration with disregards to time, or, can this equation if need be manipulated to find other unknown variables?
 
The equation relates four quantities: the velocity of an object at one point, the velocity of the same object at another point, the distance between the two points, and the average acceleration of the object as it travels from one to the other. Any time you have any three of those values, you can use this equation to find the fourth. For example, given the initial and final velocity and the average acceleration, you can find the net distance traveled.

This is true of any equation: when you know all quantities in the equation except one, you can use the equation to find that unknown quantity.

P.S. As far as the derivation: you'll notice that time appears in both of the original equations, but does not appear in the final equation that you were trying to derive. That's a big clue that you should solve one of the equations for time and substitute it into the other.
 

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