Third Isomorphism Theorem for Rings .... Bland Theorem 3.3.16 .... ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Bland's Third Isomorphism Theorem for rings, specifically focusing on the proof provided in "The Basics of Abstract Algebra." Participants are examining the properties of a mapping related to the theorem and questioning its status as an epimorphism.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion regarding the mapping $$f: I_1 \rightarrow (I_1 + I_2) / I_2$$ and questions its status as an epimorphism, suggesting that it may not be onto $$(I_1 + I_2) / I_2$$.
  • Peter's reasoning involves the existence of elements $$y \in I_1 + I_2$$ that belong to $$I_2$$, leading him to conclude that there are cosets in $$(I_1 + I_2) / I_2$$ not in the range of $$f$$.
  • Another participant, GJA, counters Peter's reasoning by stating that since ideals are (sub)rings with an additive group structure, the mapping $$f$$ is indeed onto, as any element $$y \in I_2$$ maps to $$I_2$$ under the function.
  • Peter acknowledges GJA's clarification and expresses appreciation for the help.
  • A later participant shares a visual representation of the theorem, suggesting that it aids in understanding the proof and encourages Peter to create a similar drawing for the second isomorphism theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial confusion regarding the mapping's properties, as Peter and GJA present opposing views on whether $$f$$ is an epimorphism. The discussion remains unresolved regarding Peter's initial reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Peter's analysis contains assumptions about the mapping and its range that are not fully resolved, and GJA's response introduces a different perspective on the properties of ideals and mappings.

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I am reading "The Basics of Abstract Algebra" by Paul E. Bland ... ...

I am currently focused on Chapter 3: Sets with Two Binary Operations: Rings ... ...

I need help with Bland's proof of the Third Isomorphism Theorem for rings ...

Bland's Third Isomorphism Theorem for rings and its proof read as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/7973
In the above proof by Bland we read the following:

" ... ... The mapping $$f \ : \ I_1 \rightarrow ( I_1 + I_2 ) / I_2$$ given by $$f(x) = x + I_2$$ is a well-defined ring epimorphism with kernel $$I_1 \cap I_2$$. ... ... "I cannot see how $$f$$ can be an epimorphism as it does not seem to be onto $$( I_1 + I_2 ) / I_2$$ ... ...

My reasoning (which I strongly suspect is faulty) is as follows:... ... The domain of $$f$$ is $$I_1$$, so $$x \in I_1$$ ...

Now there exists elements $$y \in I_1 + I_2$$ such that $$y \in I_2 \ \ ( y = 0 + y \text{ where } 0 \in I_1, y \in I_2) $$

For such $$y$$ there is a coset in $$( I_1 + I_2 ) / I_2$$ of the form $$y + I_2$$ that is not in the range of $$f$$ ...

... so $$f$$ is not an epimorphism ...
It seems certain to me that my reasoning is wrong somewhere ... can someone please point out the error(s) in my analysis above ...

Peter
 
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Hi, Peter.

Peter said:
I cannot see how $$f$$ can be an epimorphism as it does not seem to be onto $$( I_1 + I_2 ) / I_2$$ ... ...

My reasoning (which I strongly suspect is faulty) is as follows:

... ... The domain of $$f$$ is $$I_1$$, so $$x \in I_1$$ ...

Now there exists elements $$y \in I_1 + I_2$$ such that $$y \in I_2 \ \ ( y = 0 + y \text{ where } 0 \in I_1, y \in I_2) $$

For such $$y$$ there is a coset in $$( I_1 + I_2 ) / I_2$$ of the form $$y + I_2$$ that is not in the range of $$f$$ ...

... so $$f$$ is not an epimorphism ...

Recall that ideals are (sub)rings and thus have an additive group structure. In particular, $y+I_{2}=I_{2}$ for all $y\in I_{2}.$ Hence, $f$ is onto because for any $y\in I_{2}$, $x+y+I_{2}=x+I_{2}$.
 
GJA said:
Hi, Peter.
Recall that ideals are (sub)rings and thus have an additive group structure. In particular, $y+I_{2}=I_{2}$ for all $y\in I_{2}.$ Hence, $f$ is onto because for any $y\in I_{2}$, $x+y+I_{2}=x+I_{2}$.
Thanks GJA ...

Appreciate your help ...

Peter
 
Hi Peter,

There is a drawing I like very much and which helps remembering the statement of the theorem (it may also help understanding the proof):

\begin{tikzpicture}
\draw (0,0) rectangle (6,6);
\draw (2,0) -- (2,6);
\draw (0,2) -- (6,2);
\draw (1,1) node {$I_1\cap I_2$};
\draw (1,5) node {$I_1$};
\draw (5,1) node {$I_2$};
\draw (5,5) node {$I_1+I_2$};
\end{tikzpicture}

Basically, the theorem states that what the drawing suggests is actually true;).

You may enjoy making a similar drawing for the second isomorphism theorem. (By the way, many books interchange the numbers of these two theorems).
 

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