To which bodies can we apply the concept of torque?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of torque in physics, particularly its application to various bodies and the representation of torque in free-body diagrams (FBDs). Participants explore the relationship between torque and rotational motion, as well as the mathematical definitions involved, while also addressing introductory physics concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the typical free-body diagram for torque problems, noting the difference between point particles in translational motion and the use of "lever arms" for torque.
  • Another participant humorously suggests that torque is only applicable to Canadian bodies, indicating a light-hearted approach to the topic.
  • A participant explains the definition of torque as the cross product of the radius vector and the force vector, relating it to angular acceleration and moment of inertia.
  • One participant provides an example of a cantilevered shaft loaded by torques, illustrating how torque vectors can be represented as curly arrows in diagrams.
  • A detailed example involving a crane arm is presented, where the participant outlines the static equilibrium condition and the equation for torque about the pivot, leading to a calculation for tension in the supporting cable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to the concept of torque, with some engaging in humor while others provide technical explanations. There is no consensus on a singular definition or application of torque, and the discussion remains open-ended with multiple perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about static conditions in the crane arm example and the application of the right-hand rule for determining torque direction, which may not be universally understood by all participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students in introductory physics courses, educators looking for examples of torque applications, and individuals interested in the foundational concepts of rotational motion and free-body diagrams.

Mr Davis 97
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I am in introductory physics, and have just been introduced to the topic of toque. For forces in translational motion, I know that we idealize objects to be point particles. However, when it comes to torque, we don't deal with point particles, but with "lever arms." I guess essentially my question is, what does the typical free-body diagram look like for a torque problem? For regular forces the FBD is just a point with arrows.
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
I am in introductory physics, and have just been introduced to the topic of toque.
Toque is only applicable to Canadian bodies. :DD
 
Did you also learn about the cross product? Torque is defined as the radius vector crossed with the force vector. You've learned about translational motion; F = ma (a constant force causes an object to accelerate translationally), analogously, a constant torque causes an object to accelerate about an axis of rotation (τ = I α) I = Moment of Inertia, α = angular acceleration

The direction of this torque is determined by the cross product, it will be perpendicular to both the radius and force vectors. In a 2D plane, this translates to a direction of into or out of the page (do you know the "right hand rule"?). Small movement changes the direction of the radius vector and overall you'll observe rotational motion.

-------

Here's a cool video:

If you define the radius vector from the center, and the force vector (gravity) pointing downward, the cross product is what causes it to precess around like that.
 
Last edited:
Mr Davis 97 said:
I am in introductory physics, and have just been introduced to the topic of toque. For forces in translational motion, I know that we idealize objects to be point particles. However, when it comes to torque, we don't deal with point particles, but with "lever arms." I guess essentially my question is, what does the typical free-body diagram look like for a torque problem? For regular forces the FBD is just a point with arrows.

Here is a cantilevered shaft which is loaded by three torques:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThHY_AKTXAEUzyvC9XFbQRcTBHib4O6nEsnGugU7EpjJnD2soY.jpg

Just like a force vector is an arrow (since it causes a body to translate in the direction of the force), a torque vector is a curly arrow (since it causes a body to rotate in the direction of the torque).
 
Here is a FBD for a 6m long crane arm that is hinged at the bottom left, it has mass 30kg and a 60kg mass hanging from the top end. There is a cable holding it up that has tension T. Your mission is to find the tension T...

CH0810b.gif


Even though the arm is subject to forces it can be treated as a torque problem. For example..

The crane arm isn't accelerating (it's static) so the torques must sum to zero. We can write this equation for the torque about the pivot..

Torque due to 30kg mass of arm + Torque due to 60kg mass + torque due to cable = 0

If we define clockwise as +ve and assume g =10m/s/s that becomes..

+ 300*3*Sin(60) + 600*6*Sin(60) - T*4*Sin(30) = 0

and we can solve for T.
 

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