Topless Woman Lured Perverts in Police Sting

[jostpuur]

Suppose you see somebody's wallet lying around, and think: "I'll pick this up, so that I can take it to police." It could be a big mistake! Just leave it there, and walk away!

And be careful with suspicious looking women. Control yourself, no matter how wild they are:

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4022717&page=1

 

[Astronuc]

While topless sunbathing is legal in the city's parks, exposing more than that is against the law.

I don't think he's a pervert as much as he is just stupid to do what he did 'in public'. If he wanted to comply with the lady's request, then he should have invited her somewhere private. Certainly he has a point in his favor - that he was complying with her request.

 

[DaveC426913]

That is entrapment.

 

[Gokul43201]

Hey, I remember her from last summer!

Nah, kidding!

I've never got the point of legalizing toplessness but nothing more (but I won't complain - if they change that law, I know which way it'll change). Can someone explain the rationale behind this?

 

[Astronuc]

I've never got the point of legalizing toplessness but nothing more (but I won't complain - if they change that law, I know which way it'll change). Can someone explain the rationale behind this?

Males go topless, so to be fair and equitable, some local communities have legalized topless for women too!

It not so much legalizing toplessness as it is not making illegal, i.e. rescinding a law that makes it illegal.

 

[Moonbear]

That does sound like entrapment, since she ASKED him to commit the crime. It's not like he saw a topless woman in the park and decided to just wander over and expose himself.

I really have a problem with the one about the wallets too. An honest person picks up a wallet with the intention of finding an ID inside and calling the owner later (not like you can make a phone call from a subway...no cell signal) finds himself or herself under arrest because they didn't stand in the middle of the platform waving around a wallet shouting "Anybody lose this?!" Now, if they left it out and it had credit cards in it and someone started using the credit cards, then nab them, but just picking it up and not immediately turning it into someone doesn't constitute a crime, especially if you have no reason to think it just fell out of someone's pocket who is still standing near you. And who's going to miss their train hunting around for someone to give the wallet to?

 

[DaveC426913]

Hey, I remember her from last summer!

Nah, kidding!

I've never got the point of legalizing toplessness but nothing more (but I won't complain - if they change that law, I know which way it'll change). Can someone explain the rationale behind this?

Equality of the sexes. Both men and women can now go topless, neither men nor women can go bottomless.

 

[Astronuc]

That does sound like entrapment, since she ASKED him to commit the crime.

But she didn't ask him to commit a crime, she asked him to unzip so she could see a certain part of his anatomy. All he had to do was invite her somewhere private. He is guilty of poor judgement and stupidity.

Any reasonable person would refuse to commit a crime if asked to do so. Yes? No?

 

[Cyrus]

Hey, if a topless woman wanted to see my pee pee, Id show her too!

Id probably be the first one they arrested. HAAAH!

 

[Gokul43201]

Equality of the sexes.

Hey, when can we get equality of the bodyparts?

 

[jcsd]

But she didn't ask him to commit a crime, she asked him to unzip so she could see a certain part of his anatomy. All he had to do was invite her somewhere private. He is guilty of poor judgement and stupidity.

Any reasonable person would refuse to commit a crime if asked to do so. Yes? No?

Yep, but the reason that entrapment is illegal is that no-one benefits (except the statistics) from prosecuting people for committing a crime that they wouldn't have committed if they hadn't been incited by the law enforcement authorities. It's the job of the law enbforcement agency to detect and prevent crime and to catch the perpetrators not to go round testing the moral scruples of members of the public.

 

[moose]

That's stupid...

jcsd said it perfectly.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Poor guy! Thought he was going to get lucky and then WHAM! I think that's what happens to Moonbear's sheep.

 

[Astronuc]

I agree with jcsd that it is not the job of law enforcement officials to go round testing the moral scruples of members of the public.

I say let the poor guy go. Being embarassed in public is enough punishment.

He should call that woman for a date.

 

[animalcroc]

Suppose you see somebody's wallet lying around, and think: "I'll pick this up, so that I can take it to police." It could be a big mistake! Just leave it there, and walk away!

And be careful with suspicious looking women. Control yourself, no matter how wild they are:

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4022717&page=1

This shows how screwed up society and especially the law enforcement are. Too many people like to parade around with a wannabe Puritanist jihad mentality. Society and law enforcement should be focusing on ruthless murderers, not this BS.
Buy a video game that let's you blast off people's head and it's fine, but show your natural skin, and hell breaks loose.

 

[Moonbear]

But she didn't ask him to commit a crime, she asked him to unzip so she could see a certain part of his anatomy. All he had to do was invite her somewhere private. He is guilty of poor judgement and stupidity.

Any reasonable person would refuse to commit a crime if asked to do so. Yes? No?

The thing is, we don't know if anyone else was in view, or if he was fairly well convinced she was the only one who would see anything anyway. Sure, if someone sees a family picnicking or playing games a few yards away, they wouldn't likely comply, but if she's lying around topless, it may have been a reasonably secluded area where he had no expectation of anyone wandering past who would be offended.

With that sort of "sting" operation, though, it's probably a good thing he didn't ask her to go anywhere with him, or he might have been arrested for soliciting prostitution or attempted rape or who knows what. At least this way, it was just public nudity.

 

[JasonRox]

Police officers HAVE WAY TOO MUCH time on their hands. Instead of preventing crime, they setup scenarios to create crime. That makes no ****ing sense.

 

[Astronuc]

The thing is, we don't know if anyone else was in view, or if he was fairly well convinced she was the only one who would see anything anyway. Sure, if someone sees a family picnicking or playing games a few yards away, they wouldn't likely comply, but if she's lying around topless, it may have been a reasonably secluded area where he had no expectation of anyone wandering past who would be offended.

If she testified that he exposed himself to her, then there is no case, since she asked for it. If there are no other witnesses then he may have a good case that he wasn't in public. I hope he has a good lawyer.

With that sort of "sting" operation, though, it's probably a good thing he didn't ask her to go anywhere with him, or he might have been arrested for soliciting prostitution or attempted rape or who knows what. At least this way, it was just public nudity.

As long as he doesn't offer to exchange money or something else for having sexual relations with her, then there is no crime.

What the heck is a guy doing exposing himself to a woman he just met, even at her request?

 

[rewebster]

Why do they CONFINE women who want to go topless just to the parks?

That's an injustice right there!

 

[moose]

What the heck is a guy doing exposing himself to a woman he just met, even at her request?

She was topless and probably pretty attractive and he was turned on. A tremendous amount of guys would have done the same thing...

 

[animalcroc]

Police officers HAVE WAY TOO MUCH time on their hands. Instead of preventing crime, they setup scenarios to create crime. That makes no ****ing sense.

That's why we have all the violent bad guys running around. Police officers let them go and look for these guys.

 

[Moonbear]

She was topless and probably pretty attractive and he was turned on. A tremendous amount of guys would have done the same thing...

Yeah, that would be my thoughts too. Since he walked up to talk to her, I'm assuming he found her attractive too. He may have only unzipped enough for her and nobody else to see, even. He probably thought he was going to get lucky if she was being that bold!

 

[Cyrus]

What the heck is a guy doing exposing himself to a woman he just met, even at her request?

As borat would say, "why nottttt?"

 

[turbo]

That's why we have all the violent bad guys running around. Police officers let them go and look for these guys.

Well, really! If you were a cop, would you rather patrol bad neighborhoods suppressing the activities of muggers, purse-snatchers, and gang-bangers OR would you like to spend the day hanging out in a van at the park with donuts and coffee, shooting video of some cute topless decoy trying to lure some guys into violating public indecency laws? I know quite a few guys in law-enforcement, and I know what duty they'd rather pull.

The pigeon in this situation exercised some REALLY bad judgment, but if you watched the video, she playfully laid back in a supine position, initiated physical contact, etc. Generally, by the time a woman is resting her legs/ankles on a guy's shoulders, they already gotten well beyond the "show me yours and I'll show you mine" stage. The sting operation seemed designed to produce arrests and notoriety for the department, and not to protect public safety.

 

[Moonbear]

Well, really! If you were a cop, would you rather patrol bad neighborhoods suppressing the activities of muggers, purse-snatchers, and gang-bangers OR would you like to spend the day hanging out in a van at the park with donuts and coffee, shooting video of some cute topless decoy trying to lure some guys into violating public indecency laws? I know quite a few guys in law-enforcement, and I know what duty they'd rather pull.

Very true!

The pigeon in this situation exercised some REALLY bad judgment, but if you watched the video, she playfully laid back in a supine position, initiated physical contact, etc. Generally, by the time a woman is resting her legs/ankles on a guy's shoulders, they already gotten well beyond the "show me yours and I'll show you mine" stage. The sting operation seemed designed to produce arrests and notoriety for the department, and not to protect public safety.

I didn't see there was a video associated with the story. Geez, yeah, if she's putting her legs up on his shoulders, yeah, that's pretty much doing anything one can to tempt an innocent guy into losing all hope of self control. That's not being a pervert, that's being a guy who thinks he's just found a consenting gal!

 

[turbo]

I didn't see there was a video associated with the story. Geez, yeah, if she's putting her legs up on his shoulders, yeah, that's pretty much doing anything one can to tempt an innocent guy into losing all hope of self control. That's not being a pervert, that's being a guy who thinks he's just found a consenting gal!

Go back to the OP and follow the link. The decoy was acting like she was in heat. The off-duty fireman probably thought "Man! I've struck the mother-lode!" It's one thing to set up surveillance at sites where law-enforcement agencies expect sex-offenders to strike. It's another thing entirely to plant cute decoys doing public lap-dances to try to lure guys into violating public indecency laws.

Disclaimer: the guy should have suspected that something was up, but after viewing the surveillance video, I've got to believe that he was thinking not with his brain, but with his pants.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Did this happen in Russia? One would think that it must be Putin's Russia.

Incredible; first preemptive strikes, and now preemptive arrests.

 

[Hurkyl]

Police officers HAVE WAY TOO MUCH time on their hands. Instead of preventing crime, they setup scenarios to create crime. That makes no ****ing sense.

You would rather them spend long hours day after day patrolling, hoping to catch them in the act, when they could just spend a couple hours in one day to round up a bunch at once?

 

[russ_watters]

Round up a bunch of what? Generally law-abiding people with weak self-control? That's not the same as trolling for johns (or going after the hookers). You can round up a bunch of those at once without the need to go after people who didn't leave the house that day intending to break the law.

 

[animalcroc]

Well, really! If you were a cop, would you rather patrol bad neighborhoods suppressing the activities of muggers, purse-snatchers, and gang-bangers OR would you like to spend the day hanging out in a van at the park with donuts and coffee, shooting video of some cute topless decoy trying to lure some guys into violating public indecency laws? I know quite a few guys in law-enforcement, and I know what duty they'd rather pull.

The pigeon in this situation exercised some REALLY bad judgment, but if you watched the video, she playfully laid back in a supine position, initiated physical contact, etc. Generally, by the time a woman is resting her legs/ankles on a guy's shoulders, they already gotten well beyond the "show me yours and I'll show you mine" stage. The sting operation seemed designed to produce arrests and notoriety for the department, and not to protect public safety.

Good point. Then I'd say the cops were the ones tempted to violate "decency laws" by having a topless cutie act like she's in heat. If I was the pigeon I would have done the same, so I don't think bad judgment was exercised on his part as I doubt anyone was in a position to see in the first place.
People in the future will look back and laugh at our laws (since law is relative)

 

[Oerg]

We have a similar problem around at my place where over-zealous drug enforement agents set up entrapment ploys against generally law abiding citizens. It gets a little more serious though as just trafficking about 20g of heroin warrants a death sentence.

 

[jostpuur]

You would rather them spend long hours day after day patrolling, hoping to catch them in the act, when they could just spend a couple hours in one day to round up a bunch at once?

It is true that using "a bait" is more effective, but what these cops were doing was not really using a bait to catch criminals. They should put a female police officer in civil clothes (perhaps having some defense spray with her) walking alone on some quiet street at night, and then if somebody attacks her, arrest him. Now some would probably criticize this as too dangerous for the female officer, and there could be difficulty getting volunteers. It is understandable, but if using somebody as bait is too dangerous, then it is too dangerous, and nobody should be used as a bait. Now these cops got the effectiveness of using bait, and still kept it safe by using the bait to mostly ordinary people instead of those who would really commit a crime.

 

[JasonRox]

You would rather them spend long hours day after day patrolling, hoping to catch them in the act, when they could just spend a couple hours in one day to round up a bunch at once?

It's NOT about what I rather be doing like you and turbo are thinking. It's about what you SHOULD be doing.

Cops should be preventing crime and NOT creating scenarios to create crime. If you don't like the job, don't take it!

 

[Astronuc]

I didn't see there was a video associated with the story. Geez, yeah, if she's putting her legs up on his shoulders, yeah, that's pretty much doing anything one can to tempt an innocent guy into losing all hope of self control. That's not being a pervert, that's being a guy who thinks he's just found a consenting gal!

Yeah, she's getting pretty frisky! I hope the judge dismisses this on the grounds that the woman initiated the contact and made the request. I don't see anyone else in the park - but then I didn't watch the whole thing.

Maybe the guy on the video should get those who videotaped him for invasion of privacy, althought that's a stretch because he's out in public view.

 

[Cyrus]

The judge should make her take him out on a date, pay for his meal on the police's dime, and then take him back up to her place. ---Ive been very bad, arrest me officer.

 

[Astronuc]

The judge should make her take him out on a date, pay for his meal on the police's dime, and then take him back up to her place. ---Ive been very bad, arrest me officer.

I agree!

 

[moose]

Oh, and also, why is the woman topless? Going along with their plan for a moment, wouldn't it be more effective to use a woman who is actually clothed? I mean, a lot of guys would be too scared to walk up to the topless woman. A clothed woman could act just as seductive and it would probably work better... I think the fact that the woman was topless made this more newsworthy... maybe that's why she was topless.

 

[Hurkyl]

Now these cops got the effectiveness of using bait, and still kept it safe by using the bait to mostly ordinary people instead of those who would really commit a crime.

The people who got caught are not merely people who "would really commit a crime" -- they are people who actually did commit a crime.

 

[Cyrus]

Hurkyl, that was a classic case of entrapment. Its illegal, and not what the police are for.

She can flash me in a public park, anyday.

 

[animalcroc]

Hurkyl, that was a classic case of entrapment. Its illegal, and not what the police are for.


She can flash me in a public park, anyday.

LOL nice
Same here.

 

[jostpuur]

Now these cops got the effectiveness of using bait, and still kept it safe by using the bait to mostly ordinary people instead of those who would really commit a crime.

The people who got caught are not merely people who "would really commit a crime{}^1" -- they are people who actually did commit a crime{}^2.

These are different kind of crimes. In 1 it means to cause harm to other people against their will, and possibly cause injury. In 2 it means to show the erected organ when asked to.

 

[jostpuur]

This is of course not my problem. I have enough difficulty approaching fully clothed women. I would have survived, while Cyrus would have lost!

 

[Hurkyl]

Hurkyl, that was a classic case of entrapment. Its illegal, and not what the police are for.

Since you apparently haven't noticed... I'm not talking to the people who think the operation was performed illegaly; I'm talking to the people who are complaining that there was an operation.

 

[Cyrus]

Isnt that one and the same? The police should not be doing operations of entrapment. They should have been doing better things with their time. Like watching entrapment.

 

[Hurkyl]

These are different kind of crimes. In 1 it means to cause harm to other people against their will, and possibly cause injury. In 2 it means to show the erected organ when asked to.

No, in 2, it means an act that is forbidden by public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by the law.

 

[Hurkyl]

Isnt that one and the same?

No, they are not. Your complaint is that the cops did something illegal. Their complaint is that the cops did something, legal or not.

 

[Cyrus]

How are they not the same? The police are not allowed to entrap people. Therefore the mere act of them entrapping someone is illegal, and not something they should be doing. Hence, why they should be doing something better with their time. Like eating doughnuts.

Could you explain to me how police engaging in entrapping activities is a good use of their time?

 

[Hurkyl]

(I added to my previous post)

 

[Cyrus]

Jasons complaint makes perfect sense, but what you said to him in response made no sense. Jason said they should not waste their time scheming how to entrap people.

What Jason said was:

Police officers HAVE WAY TOO MUCH time on their hands. Instead of preventing crime, they setup scenarios to create crime.

but then you said:

You would rather them spend long hours day after day patrolling, hoping to catch them in the act, when they could just spend a couple hours in one day to round up a bunch at once?

And this puzzles me.

 

[moose]

I have to agree with Cyrus.

I would rather the cops spend long hours day after day patrolling, hoping to catch a criminal in the act of committing a real crime.