Total derivative of integral seen as a functional, how?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the total derivative of an integral viewed as a functional, specifically examining the expression D(S_{a,b},f) = \delta S_{a,b} in the context of Lagrangian physics. The integral S_{a,b}(f) = ∫_a^b f(x)dx is identified as a functional mapping functions to real numbers. The participants debate the algebraic types of the left-hand side (LHS) and right-hand side (RHS) of the equation δ ∫_a^b f(x) dx = ∫_a^b δ f dx, questioning the interpretation of δ as a functional. The discussion highlights the inconsistencies in derivative notation and emphasizes the importance of understanding the fundamental theorem of calculus in this context.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of functionals in calculus
  • Familiarity with Lagrangian mechanics
  • Knowledge of the fundamental theorem of calculus
  • Proficiency in interpreting derivative notations
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the properties of functionals in calculus
  • Explore Lagrangian mechanics and its mathematical foundations
  • Review the fundamental theorem of calculus in various contexts
  • Investigate different notations and interpretations of derivatives
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, physicists, and students studying calculus or Lagrangian mechanics who seek to deepen their understanding of functionals and derivatives.

birulami
Messages
153
Reaction score
0
To be specific, with total derivative I mean the linear map that best approximates a given function [itex]f[/itex] at a given point. For [itex]f:ℝ\toℝ[/itex] we have [itex]D(f,x_0):ℝ\toℝ[/itex], i.e. [itex]D(f,x_0)(h) \in ℝ[/itex]. Often it is also denoted as just [itex]\delta f[/itex].

Now in physics, in particular in the area of the Lagrangian, I find the following. Let [itex]S_{a,b}(f) = \int_a^b f(x)dx[/itex] a functional that maps functions [itex]f[/itex] to the real line. Then [itex]D(S_{a,b},f) = \delta S_{a,b}[/itex] should be well defined given any necessary smoothness conditions. In particular [itex]D(S_{a,b},f)[/itex] maps functions [itex]h[/itex] of the same type of [itex]f[/itex] to real numbers. Because the integral is linear, so my hunch, its best linear approximation should be itself. Yet in a physics course, equation 1.5, first line, I find what I understand to be

[tex]\delta \int_a^b f(x) dx = \int_a^b \delta f dx[/tex]

Can anyone explain how the algebraic types on the left and on the right would match up? My interpretation is, that on the left I have a the total derivative of a functional, which itself should be a functional, written explicitly as [itex]D(S_{a,b},f)[/itex]. On the right I have the integral over, hmm, the total derivative of [itex]f[/itex], where I don't see how this could be a functional?

Any hints appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
When it comes to derivatives, the notations are even more varying than the perspectives of a derivative itself. I think you put too much interpretation into the ##\delta## notation. The LHS is the derivative of a real number? Doesn't make sense, but I don't see the functional either. I read it as ##\delta F = \int f'## where ##F## denotes the antiderivative of ##f## and ##f'## its derivative. Hence it is a version of the fundamental theorem of calculus written in another way. As mentioned, do not expect consistency in notation of derivatives.

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/the-pantheon-of-derivatives-i/
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K