Trying to get an explicit function(ish)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving for ##t_p## in the equation $$t_p - t + vy \cos {(2 \pi \omega t_p )} - vx \sin {(2 \pi \omega t_p )} = 0$$. Participants explore the challenges of finding an explicit function due to the nature of the equation, which suggests multiple outputs for given inputs. The context includes analyzing coordinate transformations in spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that there is generally no closed solution and suggests using approximations, mentioning that the cosine and sine terms can be combined to simplify the problem.
  • Another participant highlights that ##t_p## cannot be too different from ##t##, providing a region to search for solutions.
  • Newton's method is proposed as a potential tool for finding solutions once an initial approximation is identified.
  • One participant introduces the implicit function theorem as a method to determine conditions under which a local expression for ##t_p## might exist.
  • There is a sense of dissatisfaction expressed regarding the lack of a general solution, but appreciation for the insights shared.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that a closed solution is unlikely and that approximations are necessary. However, there are differing approaches suggested, such as using the implicit function theorem and numerical methods like Newton's method, indicating multiple perspectives on how to proceed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the limitations of the mathematical approach or the implications of the constants involved, such as ##|v| < 1##.

Pencilvester
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How would I go about solving for ##t_p## in the following equation:$$t_p - t + vy \cos {(2 \pi \omega t_p )} - vx \sin {(2 \pi \omega t_p )} = 0$$where our input is a point in ##ℝ^3## with coordinates ##t##, ##x##, and ##y##, and where ##v## and ##\omega## are constants. I’m pretty sure it can’t be a function exactly, as I’m pretty sure most, if not all input points will each yield 2 distinct outputs. If it matters to you, ##|v| < 1##, but I don’t think that it’s relevant to this problem. And this isn’t any kind of homework problem. I’m not in school, I’m just trying to analyze what a coordinate transformation might look like for going from coordinates of an inertial observer in flat spacetime to coordinates of an observer tracing out a helix in spacetime (or a circle in space), and I’m running into this limitation in my mathematical abilities, so any help would be much appreciated.
 
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In general there is no closed solution - you can only find approximations. It is possible to combine the cosine and sine term to a single sine (or cosine) with an additional phase, that makes the problem a bit easier to look at. tp cannot be too different from t as the other terms cannot get larger than vx or vy, respectively, this gives you a region to look for solutions. Once you found a tp that is not too far away from a solution tools like Newton's method will work.
 
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mfb said:
In general there is no closed solution - you can only find approximations. It is possible to combine the cosine and sine term to a single sine (or cosine) with an additional phase, that makes the problem a bit easier to look at. tp cannot be too different from t as the other terms cannot get larger than vx or vy, respectively, this gives you a region to look for solutions. Once you found a tp that is not too far away from a solution tools like Newton's method will work.
Dang. That’s dissatisfying for me. Well at least I didn’t spend much time trying to find a general solution before posting this. Thanks!
 

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