Two voltmeters in parallel measure these different voltages

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a circuit involving induction law and the behavior of voltmeters connected to a coil with multiple turns. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the differing voltage measurements from two oscilloscopes connected to the same coil, as indicated by the equations provided in their homework statement.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the reasoning behind the differing voltage measurements, questioning the physical layout of the circuit and the implications of the induced EMF based on wire routing. Some participants reference a well-known paradox related to this phenomenon.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and references to external resources that may clarify the situation. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity of the problem, and various interpretations of the setup are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the physical arrangement of the wires may influence the induced EMF, and there is mention of specific terminology related to measurement techniques that could affect the readings. The original poster's understanding of the induction E field as non-conservative is also highlighted as a point of discussion.

Granger
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Homework Statement


I'm currently studying induction law and circuits with inductors. I came however with the following circuit:

[1]: https://i.stack.imgur.com/ghaiE.png
ghaiE.png

Homework Equations


3. The Attempt at a Solution [/B]

Now my text says the following:

"Unlike what your intuition might tell you, oscilloscopes 1 and 2 will measure different voltages. For a N-turn coil you will get

$$u' = N\frac{d\phi}{dt}$$
$$u'' = (N-1)\frac{d\phi}{dt}$$
"

How is that possible? I'm having trouble on understanding why this results are obtained. I understand (I think) that the oscilloscopes will measure different values because the induction E field is non conservative. But I don't understand their computation. How does the left side sees one coil less than the right side?
 

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I might be wrong, but if the wires are physically laid out as the circuit diagram shows, then the wires connecting up to ##u''## form a loop in the opposite direction around the coil, thus inducing an EMF in those wires which is in the opposite direction to one turn of the coil.
 
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Granger said:
Unlike what your intuition might tell you, oscilloscopes 1 and 2 will measure different voltages. For a N-turn coil
I have two words for you... "Z-Lead Probes" :smile:

(Oh, and that should be "For an N-turn coil"...

http://i.stack.imgur.com/cbLXI.png

cbLXI.png
 

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berkeman said:
I have two words for you... "Z-Lead Probes" :smile:

(Oh, and that should be "For an N-turn coil"...

http://i.stack.imgur.com/cbLXI.png

View attachment 233070
@berkeman With the OP's sketch, the problem is not the leads.(It is because EMF's are being generated depending on how the wires are routed). This is a very good example of Professor Walter Lewin's paradox. Please see the video in post 52 of the "link" that I posted. Professor Walter Lewin explains it completely in his video.
 
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