Understanding Disjoint Cycles: $k_1$ and $k_2$

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cycles
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of disjoint cycles in permutations, particularly focusing on the conditions under which cycles are considered disjoint and the implications of including or excluding certain cycles, such as 1-cycles. Participants explore the definitions, conventions, and examples related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that disjoint cycles are defined such that each element in one cycle is different from every element in another cycle.
  • It is noted that if an element appears in a cycle, it must not map to itself, leading to the conclusion that if $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$, then $k_2(a_i) = a_i$.
  • Concerns are raised about the case where a cycle has only one element (1-cycle), which leads to the identity mapping, prompting a discussion on how to handle such cases.
  • Several conventions are suggested to address the issue of 1-cycles, including omitting them, defining disjoint cycles for non-identity cycles only, or stipulating that the number of elements in cycles must be greater than one.
  • Participants discuss the non-uniqueness of cycle decomposition in permutations, comparing it to the factorization of integers and suggesting methods to standardize cycle representation.
  • Examples are provided to illustrate how certain permutations can be expressed in disjoint cycles, highlighting the choice of including or excluding certain cycles, such as 1-cycles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of disjoint cycles but express differing views on how to handle 1-cycles and the implications of including them in cycle notation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to defining and representing cycles.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity surrounding the treatment of 1-cycles and the potential for multiple valid representations of the same permutation. The discussion reflects various assumptions about the definitions and conventions used in the context of permutations.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

$$k_1=(a_1 \ \ \ a_2 \ \ \ \dots \ \ \ a_m)$$
$$k_2=(b_1 \ \ \ b_2 \ \ \ \dots \ \ \ b_n)$$

These cycles are disjoint if each $a_i$ is $\neq$ from each $b_j$.
We remark that $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$ and since $a_i$ isn't any of the $b_j$ that means that $k_2(a_i)=a_i$.
Respectively: $k_2(b_j) \neq b_j \ \ \ \forall j \ \ \ \text{ and } \ \ \ k_1(b_j)=b_j$.What I understand from that is the following:
These cycles are disjoint if all the elements are different.
It stands that $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$ because if $k_1(a_i)=a_i$ then we wouldn't write this element in the cycle but since it exists there it must be $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$. And since the $a_i$'s and $b_j$'s are all different, at the cycle $k_2$ there is no $a_i$, that means that it must be $k_2(a_i)=a_i$.Could you tell me if I have understood it right?? (Wasntme)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
mathmari said:
Hey! :o

$$k_1=(a_1 \ \ \ a_2 \ \ \ \dots \ \ \ a_m)$$
$$k_2=(b_1 \ \ \ b_2 \ \ \ \dots \ \ \ b_n)$$

These cycles are disjoint if each $a_i$ is $\neq$ from each $b_j$.
We remark that $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$ and since $a_i$ isn't any of the $b_j$ that means that $k_2(a_i)=a_i$.
Respectively: $k_2(b_j) \neq b_j \ \ \ \forall j \ \ \ \text{ and } \ \ \ k_1(b_j)=b_j$.What I understand from that is the following:
These cycles are disjoint if all the elements are different.
It stands that $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$ because if $k_1(a_i)=a_i$ then we wouldn't write this element in the cycle but since it exists there it must be $k_1(a_i) \neq a_i$. And since the $a_i$'s and $b_j$'s are all different, at the cycle $k_2$ there is no $a_i$, that means that it must be $k_2(a_i)=a_i$.Could you tell me if I have understood it right?? (Wasntme)

Yep. You've understood it right! (Smile)But... suppose we pick $m=1$.
Then $k_1 = (a_1)$.
But... but... that would mean that $k_1(a_1) = a_1$. :eek:
How can that be? (Wondering)
 
There are some "conventions" that get around that difficulty:

1. We do not define 1-cycles at all, or
2. We note ALL 1-cycles are the identity, and define disjoint cycles for non-identity cycles only, or
3. We amend the statement of the original post to stipulate that $m,n > 1$

The decomposition of a permutation into disjoint cycles isn't "unique" much like factorization of integers isn't unique if we allow factors of units, or different ordering of primes. We can get around this by:

a) Omitting all 1-cycles
b) Ordering each cycle $(a_1\ a_2\ \dots\ a_n)$ so that $a_1 = \min(a_1,a_2,\dots,a_n)$
c) Ordering each product of disjoint cycles:

$(a_1\ a_2\ \dots\ a_{n_1})(b_1\ b_2\ \dots\ b_{n_2})\cdots(k_1\ a_2\ \dots\ k_{n_r})$

so that: $a_1 < b_1 < \cdots < k_1$.

These "technical details" are often glossed over, just as factorization of primes usually doesn't insist the primes are listed in increasing order, but we tend to do it anyway.

So, for example, instead of writing (5 4 6)(3 2), we would write (2 3)(4 6 5), even though both refer to the same permutation of $S_6$.
 
I like Serena said:
Yep. You've understood it right! (Smile)But... suppose we pick $m=1$.
Then $k_1 = (a_1)$.
But... but... that would mean that $k_1(a_1) = a_1$. :eek:
How can that be? (Wondering)

Maybe we have to suppose that $m>1$... (Wasntme)

For example when we have the following permutation:
$$\sigma=\begin{pmatrix}
1 &2 &3 &4 &5 &6 &7 &8 &9 &10 \\
2 &4 &1 &5 &9 &6 &8 &7 &10 &3
\end{pmatrix}$$
the analysis into disjoint cycles is:
$$\sigma=\bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
1 & 2 & 4 & 5 & 9 &10 &3
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr)\bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
7 & 8
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr)$$

$6$ does not appear at the cycles since $\displaystyle{\sigma(6)=6}$What do you mean?? (Thinking)
 
mathmari said:
Maybe we have to suppose that $m>1$... (Wasntme)

Yep.
We'll need to do something like that as Deveno explained.
Otherwise those propositions are simply incorrect. :eek:
For example when we have the following permutation:
$$\sigma=\begin{pmatrix}
1 &2 &3 &4 &5 &6 &7 &8 &9 &10 \\
2 &4 &1 &5 &9 &6 &8 &7 &10 &3
\end{pmatrix}$$
the analysis into disjoint cycles is:
$$\sigma=\bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
1 & 2 & 4 & 5 & 9 &10 &3
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr)\bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
7 & 8
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr)$$

$6$ does not appear at the cycles since $\displaystyle{\sigma(6)=6}$What do you mean?? (Thinking)

You have a free choice to include $(6)$ in the cycles or not.
You could also write it as:
$$\sigma=\bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
1 & 2 & 4 & 5 & 9 &10 &3
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr) \bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
6
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr) \bigl(\begin{smallmatrix}
7 & 8
\end{smallmatrix}\bigr)$$
Usually $(6)$ is left out, since its presence is not relevant in this context. (Mmm)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K