Understanding the Direction of 'r' Vector in Torque and Biot-Savart Law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the direction of the 'r' vector in various contexts, specifically in torque, linear momentum, and the Biot-Savart law. Participants seek clarity on how 'r' is defined and its implications in these physical scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that in the context of torque, 'r' is a vector pointing from the axis to the point of force application.
  • Another participant questions whether 'r' in linear momentum points from the center of orbit to the mass.
  • In the Biot-Savart law, a participant seeks clarification on whether 'r' points from the current to the point of measurement or vice versa.
  • One response suggests that while there is no universal rule for all meanings of 'r', it typically describes a position relative to a reference point.
  • Another participant confirms that for angular momentum, 'r' points from the axis to the center of mass, and for Biot-Savart, it points from the wire to the measurement point.
  • A participant introduces a "handy rule" regarding the order of vectors in cross products, indicating that the arrangement in formulas dictates the direction of the resulting vector.
  • There is a correction regarding terminology, with a participant suggesting that "line of action" is more appropriate than "line of application" when discussing the force vector.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the directional definitions of 'r' in torque and Biot-Savart law, but there is some contention regarding terminology and the existence of a universal rule for all contexts of 'r'.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of 'r' in different contexts may not be explicitly stated, and the discussion does not resolve the broader applicability of the proposed "handy rule."

hansen4332
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So I understand the with torque, T= r x F: r is a vector that points from axis to point of force, correct?

I am confused about the direction of r is a couple of other circumstances, and I wanted to know if there is handy rule.

For example a linear momentum, this diagram, does 'r' also point from center of orbit to the mass?

Also, in Biot-Savart law:

$$d{\bf{B}} = \frac{{\mu _0 }}{{4\pi }}\frac{{Id\ell \times {\bf{\hat r}}}}{{r^2 }}$$

what is the direction of 'r' ... from current to the point or the other way around??

Is there a handy rule?

Thanks a lot!
 
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hansen4332 said:
Is there a handy rule?
For all possible meanings of "r"? No, but usually it's a vector describing a position, relative to some reference point.
 
You are correct in all three cases. For angular momentum the r is from axis to CoM of the object whose angular momentum is being measured. For Biot-savart it is the vector from the wire to the point of measurement.

The handy rule is that a formula used to define a physical quantity in terms of a cross product will be written in an order that makes the vector of the physical quantity point the way we want it to point. Note how the r is the first argument to the cross product for torque and ang mom and the second argument for Biot-Savart. That's because that's where it needs to be to make the formula work.
 
hansen4332 said:
...with torque, T= r x F: r is a vector that points from axis to point of force, correct?
You've got the sense of r correct but I wouldn't use the term point of force . You could say instead the head of displacement vector r is a point on the force vector's line of application.
 
Correction: Should be line of action, not line of application.
 

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