Use Stokes's on Line Integral to Show Path Independence

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around using Stokes's theorem to demonstrate that the line integral of a vector field over a curve depends only on the endpoints of the curve, not the path taken. The vector field in question is defined in three-dimensional space.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of Stokes's theorem, particularly focusing on the conditions under which the curl of the vector field must be considered. There are discussions about whether the curl needs to be zero or if the surface integral of the curl can be non-zero under certain conditions.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing hints and considerations regarding the application of Stokes's theorem. Some participants suggest that the curl being zero is a necessary condition, while others propose that the integral over the surface could still yield insights even if the curl is non-zero at certain points.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of continuity assumptions and specific scenarios involving arbitrary curves and surfaces, indicating that the problem may have constraints or specific conditions that need to be addressed.

sikrut
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Use Stokes's theorem to show that line integral of ##\vec{F}(\vec{r})## over an curve ##L##, given by ##\int_L \vec{F}(\vec{r}) d\vec{r}##, depends only on the start and endpoint of ##L##, but not on the trajectory of ##L## between those two points.

Hint: Consider two different curves, ##L## and ##M##, say, which share a common start and endpoint. Construct from them a closed curve ##C## to which Stokes's theorem can be applied.

$$\vec{F}(\vec{r}) \equiv [F_x(\vec{r}), F_y(\vec{r}), F_z(\vec{r})] = [2z^2, 3z^2, (4x+6y)z] \rightarrow where \rightarrow \vec{r} \equiv [x,y,z].$$
 
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First, you need to remember that Stoke's theorem says that $$\iint\limits_S curl( \vec{F} ) d \vec{S} = \oint\limits_C \vec{F} d \vec{r}$$ You need to compute ##curl( \vec{F})## and show that it is the zero vector. This would mean that any closed line integral will be zero. This makes the integral over the path ##C## zero, which forces the two line integrals ##\int\limits_L \vec{F} d\vec{r}## and ##\int\limits_M \vec{F} d \vec{r}## to be equal.

Good Luck!
 
It's not necessarily the curl of F that needs to be zero, but the integration over the circumscribed area of the curl dotted into an element of normal area.
 
rude man said:
It's not necessarily the curl of F that needs to be zero, but the integration over the circumscribed area of the curl dotted into an element of normal area.

this is true, but I think if the curl is nonzero at some point then you could find a surface that makes the surface integral nonzero (you would need some sort of continuity assumption to prove this). Since this problem is talking about an arbitrary curve, L, I believe the only possibility is to show that the curl itself is zero.

I could imagine, however, a problem stated "for an arbitrary path on the surface, S, show that..." in which the curl isn't zero, but the same property holds.
 
hapefish said:
this is true, but I think if the curl is nonzero at some point then you could find a surface that makes the surface integral nonzero (you would need some sort of continuity assumption to prove this). Since this problem is talking about an arbitrary curve, L, I believe the only possibility is to show that the curl itself is zero.

I could imagine, however, a problem stated "for an arbitrary path on the surface, S, show that..." in which the curl isn't zero, but the same property holds.

Consider a single-turn copper coil with a mixture of ∂B/∂t of both polarities thruout its area. Curl of the E field = -∂B/∂t could be nonzero everywhere within its planar area but ∫curl E*dA = 0 is entirely possible, so that the circulation of E (the emf) around the coil would be zero too.

Of course, what you say is entirely correct for a lamellar field like gravity or electrostatic E field.
 

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