Using Fluid mechanics to rate power output of an engine.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around measuring the power output of an engine using a water pump, focusing on the mathematical approach to relate flow rate and pressure to power output. Participants explore the implications of pump efficiency and ideal versus real-world conditions in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes measuring the flow rate and pressure of the water pump to calculate power output using the equation Power = Pressure * R, where R is the volumetric flow rate.
  • Another participant questions the method of calculating force, suggesting that the initial approach may have flaws.
  • It is noted that to obtain input power, one must consider pump efficiency, which was not initially included in the calculations.
  • A suggestion is made to use a positive displacement pump to potentially address some inefficiencies, though this is challenged by the acknowledgment of friction losses in the system.
  • One participant recommends insulating the pump to minimize heat loss and measuring the temperature of the water to better understand energy conversion and inefficiencies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of the proposed method for calculating power output, with some agreeing on the need to account for pump efficiency while others remain uncertain about the initial force calculation. The discussion reflects multiple competing views on the best approach to measure power output accurately.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of considering real-world factors such as friction and heat loss, which complicate the idealized calculations. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of the initial mathematical approach, particularly regarding the assumptions made about pump efficiency.

siegelaaron94
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I trying to come up with a way to measure the power output of an engine using a water pump, And I wanted some one to go over my math and check for flaws in my thoughts. My idea is to measure the flow rate and the pressure of the output of the water pump.

Using this math to solve for power
Power = Fv
Pressure = F/A
R = Av

Pressure*A = F

Power = Pressure*A*v = Pressure*R
 
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siegelaaron94 said:
I trying to come up with a way to measure the power output of an engine using a water pump, And I wanted some one to go over my math and check for flaws in my thoughts. My idea is to measure the flow rate and the pressure of the output of the water pump.

Using this math to solve for power
Power = Fv
Pressure = F/A
R = Av

Pressure*A = F

Power = Pressure*A*v = Pressure*R

I believe this will work.
 
Thanks for responding and the help. I am sure it will work the only thing that I think might be wrong is the way I come up with the force.
 
R is volumetric flow rate? That's correct... but then you also need to divide by pump efficiency to get input power.
 
siegelaaron94 said:
Thanks for responding and the help. I am sure it will work the only thing that I think might be wrong is the way I come up with the force.

Why do you think your force is wrong?

ps. a belated, welcome to Physics Forums. :smile:
 
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russ_watters said:
R is volumetric flow rate? That's correct... but then you also need to divide by pump efficiency to get input power.

I was thinking more of the ideal case. I was also thinking of using a positive displacement pump which i think that would solve that problem, right?
 
siegelaaron94 said:
I was thinking more of the ideal case. I was also thinking of using a positive displacement pump which i think that would solve that problem, right?

No. There will still be friction between the moving parts of the pump, between the pump and the water, and within the water. All this friction creates heat.
Solving the problem is pretty simple though. Insulate the pump, thus preventing any heat loss through the pump housing. Measure the water temperature at the inlet and outlet of the pump. This, along with the flow rate and the heat capacity of water will tell you how much of the input energy is converted to heat. This heat represents most of the inefficiency of the pump. Add this to the hydraulic energy you already measured and that should be very close to the energy output of your engine.
 

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