Very simple name-plate question

In summary, the conversation discusses the difference between input and output power in a motor. Dave mentions that from memory, the output power is measured at the driveshaft. The other person adds that they are currently working on a practice question where the input power is calculated from the output power plus loss, but is different from the rated input current multiplied by rated input voltage. They also mention that the power out is usually stated for a given RPM. Dave then provides some reading material on horsepower and explains the different types of horsepower calculations. The conversation ends with the other person asking for the question to be posted word for word to avoid any misunderstandings.
  • #1
tim9000
867
17
If a motor is such-and-such Hp or kW, is that the Output power, or the Input power?
 
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  • #2
from memory its the output power as measured at the driveshaft
Dave
 
  • #3
davenn said:
from memory its the output power as measured at the driveshaft
Dave
Huh, ok that's a surprise.

It's funny that I'm doing a practice question where the input power as calculated from the output power + loss, is different from the rated input current multiplied by rated inut voltage.
Just thought I'd throw that in as an oddity, I don't understand how.

anyway, cheers.
 
  • #4
tim9000 said:
Just thought I'd throw that in as an oddity, I don't understand how.

why do you think it's odd?

if they wanted to that they could take the BTU rating of the fuel, work out the power generated by the engine, subtract the losses and get an output power
in the specs listing, its a lot easier just to state it's output

Ohh and I forgot to add in the first post. the power out will usually be stated for a given rpm
 
Last edited:
  • #5
some reading for you ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

a way down that page ...

Also, with a chassis dynamometer or rolling road, power output is measured at the driving wheels. This accounts for energy or power loss through the drive train inefficiencies and weight thereof as well as gravitational force placed upon components therein.

In general:

Nominal or rated horsepower is derived from the size of the engine and the piston speed and is only accurate at a pressure of 48 kPa (7 psi).[23][clarification needed]
Indicated or gross horsepower (theoretical capability of the engine) [ PLAN/ 33000]
minus frictional losses within the engine (bearing drag, rod and crankshaft windage losses, oil film drag, etc.), equals
Brake / net / crankshaft horsepower (power delivered directly to and measured at the engine's crankshaft)
minus frictional losses in the transmission (bearings, gears, oil drag, windage, etc.), equals
Shaft horsepower (power delivered to and measured at the output shaft of the transmission, when present in the system)
minus frictional losses in the universal joint/s, differential, wheel bearings, tire and chain, (if present), equals
Effective, True (thp) or commonly referred to as wheel horsepower (whp)

you can see my driveshaft rating in there amongst other styles ... Brake HP is the other one I'm commonly familiar with

1HP = 745.7 WattsDave
 
  • #6
That is a good point.
davenn said:
why do you think it's odd?
What I think is odd is that I'd have thought that if you multiplied the terminal voltage by the current going into the motor, that, that'd be the total input power. However in my qustion it turned out that the output power + loss' were greater than that, hence the input was greater than VI at the terminal.

Cheers
 
  • #7
Looking at the following arbitrary motor specs

http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/ironhorsesprs.pdf

the 1 hp motor draws 13.6A at 115V at Full Load, which is 1564 watts. It is then listed on the second page at 68% F.L efficiency and 0.66 F.L. power factor.

Doesn't the nameplate have the current?
 
  • #8
tim9000 said:
Huh, ok that's a surprise.

It's funny that I'm doing a practice question...
Can you post the question word for word. In other sections of the forum (eg the homework section) this is a rule because it frequently turns out that the OP has misunderstood or misinterpreted the question.
 

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