Virtual particles stolen from the universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of virtual particles and their interaction with black holes, particularly in scenarios involving the merging of two black holes. Participants explore the implications of virtual particles being created near black holes and whether this leads to a net loss of particles from the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if a virtual particle pair is created at a black hole's event horizon, one particle could be absorbed by the black hole while the other escapes, potentially leading to a loss of energy from the universe.
  • Another participant counters that virtual particles cannot be counted in this context, arguing that the total number of particles remains unchanged before and after the interaction.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the idea that if the black holes have larger mass after the interaction, this could imply a change in their energy states due to the absorption of particles with positive and negative energy.
  • One participant elaborates on the exchange of mass between two black holes through their interactions with virtual particles, suggesting that this does not create a paradox.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of virtual particles in the context of black holes, with no consensus reached regarding whether the universe is "robbed" of particles or if the total particle count remains unchanged.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of virtual particles, energy conservation, and the definitions of mass in the context of black hole interactions, which remain unresolved.

Maniax
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Hey!
Virtual particles appear and annihilate all over the universe.
If a pair is created just on a black hole event horizon, the hole can take one particle and the other goes free - the hole has to give some energy in order for this to be real. Hawking, no?

But - what if two small black holes are approaching each other at some angle that they will revolve a few times before merging into one, and a virtual particle pair is created so that the particles fly into one hole each? I suppose that means that they radiate into each other, but hasn't the universe been robbed of two particles?

/M
 
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You can't count virtual particles.

At the beginning of your problem, you have two black holes and no free particles. Afterwards you have two black holes and no free particles. What's the problem?
 
Larger mass?

Two black holes with larger mass than before the virtual particles...
 
Maniax said:
Two black holes with larger mass than before the virtual particles...
In the virtual pair, one "particle" carries negative energy, and the BH "absorbing it" loses mass.
The other "real" particle carries positive energy, we can physically talk about this one, it is observable rigourously, and the other BH gains mass by absorbing it.

You have two BHs in a box : they emit and absorb each other's radiations, exchanging mass if you will. This is a very interesting situation.
But no paradox I see :smile:
 
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