Are Earth's Natural Vibrations a Viable Energy Source?

[sheldon]

I had started an alternative energy thread in the tech. area. I have some wacked ideas about alternative power sources that are out of the realm of what are sound ideas for the logical person. Because of this I thought that if I posted here I could get some open minded thoughts and ideas on alternative power sources. Although I think my ideas are viable, they are not mainstream and easily acceptable. I will post one for you to start.

 

[sheldon]

I have an idea for an alternative power source, but it is way out there and was wondering what you think of it. I remember reading about Nicola Tesla's earthquake machine, here's a link I looked up http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Tesla.html I am unsure of its accuracy but leads to the point I would like to make. Basicly the Earth is resonating at a specific frequency like a bell here is another link http://ourworld.compuserve.com/home...ng/jbspage7.htm
and with his oscillator running at the resonant freq of the Earth would it be possible to load the machine down without causeing it to stop? I believe the power source that drives it, is from the Earth's natural vibration caused via cosmic energy bombarding the Earth all the time. Like I said the idea is out there.

 

[russ_watters]

I don't think the Earth vibrates enough to drive a machine.

Here's mine (not as out there):

Send a handful of hundred square mile relfectors into space to beam sunlight down to solar plants on earh. We could provide the world's electricity that way. We'd just need to keep planes from flying through the beam (zap).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by russ_watters
I don't think the Earth vibrates enough to drive a machine.

Here's mine (not as out there):

Send a handful of hundred square mile relfectors into space to beam sunlight down to solar plants on earh. We could provide the world's electricity that way. We'd just need to keep planes from flying through the beam (zap).

People are actually working on this one. Also, one side benefit pops up: fried sparrow. Mmmmmm.

 

[username]

I think magnetohydrodynamic generators could provide an alternative way of generating power in the future. A mercury vortex generator would be an interesting experiment, but I admit I know next to nothing about the subject.

 

[maximus]

i still think fusion has the most potensial in it.

 

[sheldon]

Originally posted by russ_watters
I don't think the Earth vibrates enough to drive a machine.

In his Manhattan lab, Tesla made the Earth into an electric tuning fork. He managed to get a steam-driven oscillator to vibrate at the same frequency as the ground beneath him (like Ella Fitzgerald breaking the glass with her voice in those old Memorex commercials).

The result? An earthquake on all the surrounding city blocks. The buildings trembled, the windows broke, and the plaster fell off the walls.

I think the Earth does vibrate enough, even a small amount would be enough considering the size of the earth.

 

[sheldon]

Originally posted by maximus
i still think fusion has the most potensial in it.

I have to agree, I heard that Bush signed off on it. I think they will have a prototype running soon. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999999
so yes we are indeed on the way

What about this though?http://www.frank.germano.com/blackbox.htm
Teslas Black Box? What was he up to?

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by sheldon
In his Manhattan lab, Tesla made the Earth into an electric tuning fork. He managed to get a steam-driven oscillator to vibrate at the same frequency as the ground beneath him (like Ella Fitzgerald breaking the glass with her voice in those old Memorex commercials).

The result? An earthquake on all the surrounding city blocks. The buildings trembled, the windows broke, and the plaster fell off the walls.

I think the Earth does vibrate enough, even a small amount would be enough considering the size of the earth.

You sure that's not one of the Tesla myths? There are quite a few.

 

[sheldon]

I suppose, I am not completely sure that it is not a myth. I thought it was in the Manhattan newspaper. How would I look for it there unless I dug up some old microfiche?

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by sheldon
I suppose, I am not completely sure that it is not a myth. I thought it was in the Manhattan newspaper. How would I look for it there unless I dug up some old microfiche?

Google?

 

[megashawn]

Well, I tend to think that there is something to Tesla's work, while some may be rumour.

I've had an idea as of recent, and it kinda sounds like perpetual motion, but I promise I've learned my lesson.

See, you start out with some type of renewable energy source, I was thinking along the lines of solar power.

You design a system that can charge a bank of batterys, I had car batterys in mind.

The solar panels only purpose in life is to recharge batterys.

You use the energy stored in the batterys to run a small electric motor, which, through essentially one of my old PM ideas, using proper gearing to turn a generator and create a larger voltage then what is produced from the batterys.

I mean, I've actually had a machine, very small scale, that would run overnight, using only 2 rechargable 1.5v AA's.

My problem, is I tried to use the output of the generator to recharge the AAs. This of course is a no no, and stopped the operation of the machine.

What I propose, is that instead of using the output to recharge the batterys, you use solar power/mini-hydroelectric, wind or whatever.

And solar tech has come quite some ways as well. I was reading about a panel that can actually get a usable voltage from a house light. They have material that reminds me of window tint, and I read about a paint that will be solar. I think there is quite some merrit to this idea, but you guys are the pros, so let me let yall check it out before I waste cash trying to build it.

If this seems like utter nonsense, maybe I can scan some of my drawings in and show you.

Also, thinking of thermoelectric again, would one be able to generate a decent amount of energy by placing these on say, a rooftop, with something like waterlines running underneath, to provide the temp indifference, and use the heat from the sun to produce energy? Anyone who has ever done any roofing work knows it gets real hot on a black rooftop.

Oh well, seems like the right place for this, since it is likely to be "whacked out".

 

[username]

How about this http://www.blacklightpower.com

 

[sheldon]

Originally posted by megashawn
Well, I tend to think that there is something to Tesla's work, while some may be rumour.

I've had an idea as of recent, and it kinda sounds like perpetual motion, but I promise I've learned my lesson.

See, you start out with some type of renewable energy source, I was thinking along the lines of solar power.

You design a system that can charge a bank of batterys, I had car batterys in mind.

The solar panels only purpose in life is to recharge batterys.

You use the energy stored in the batterys to run a small electric motor, which, through essentially one of my old PM ideas, using proper gearing to turn a generator and create a larger voltage then what is produced from the batterys.

I mean, I've actually had a machine, very small scale, that would run overnight, using only 2 rechargable 1.5v AA's.

My problem, is I tried to use the output of the generator to recharge the AAs. This of course is a no no, and stopped the operation of the machine.

What I propose, is that instead of using the output to recharge the batterys, you use solar power/mini-hydroelectric, wind or whatever.

And solar tech has come quite some ways as well. I was reading about a panel that can actually get a usable voltage from a house light. They have material that reminds me of window tint, and I read about a paint that will be solar. I think there is quite some merrit to this idea, but you guys are the pros, so let me let yall check it out before I waste cash trying to build it.

If this seems like utter nonsense, maybe I can scan some of my drawings in and show you.

Also, thinking of thermoelectric again, would one be able to generate a decent amount of energy by placing these on say, a rooftop, with something like waterlines running underneath, to provide the temp indifference, and use the heat from the sun to produce energy? Anyone who has ever done any roofing work knows it gets real hot on a black rooftop.

Oh well, seems like the right place for this, since it is likely to be "whacked out".

I am unsure about your first idea; I don't understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish. As far as your second with the thermoelectric generators, I like that idea. I would like to suggest an addition to that idea. There are all kinds of solar ideas. One is to use a solar panel to heat water that runs under the house in a rock bed that stores the heat energy then you use an exchanger to heat your house. This helps with the heat bill but does not run your refrigerator of course. My suggestion is actually simple but maybe never thought of. Design a solar panel that produces electricity from both photons and heat this could if designed correctly give you power on a 24 hour basis. There are solar shingles that you can install on a roof that are dual purpose, keeps the rain out and produces electricity. Here http://www.crystalbay.net/solar-panels/index.html#supersolar
My suggestion is to combine this technology with this technology.www.hi-z.com somehow utilize both to create power at all times. As long as you have light and heat you have electricity, you could even supplement it with a small windmill if needed.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by username
How about this http://www.blacklightpower.com

Snappy looking website for a hoax/fraud.

 

[username]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Snappy looking website for a hoax/fraud.

I don't think it can be so easily dismissed, this stuff is way beyond me so I do not have a clue whether it has any validity or not. Seems like a few labs/universities are testing the theory behind it though see:

http://www.hydrino.org/

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by username
I don't think it can be so easily dismissed, this stuff is way beyond me so I do not have a clue whether it has any validity or not. http://www.hydrino.org/

It isn't beyond you because there simply isn't anything to it. Its all meaningless technobabble.

Essentially though, the crux of the idea is that you can cause a hydrogen atom's electron to revert to a state below ground state, which is of course a contradiction in terms. Everything else on the two websites you posted is just filler.

edit: hmm, just realized I had too many atomsm in there...

 

[sheldon]

Originally posted by russ_watters
It isn't beyond you because there simply isn't anything to it. Its all meaningless technobabble.

Essentially though, the crux of the idea is that you can cause a hydrogen atom atom's electron to revert to a state below ground state, which is of course a contradiction in terms. Everything else on the two websites you posted is just filler.

I agree, a total hoax.

 

[username]

Well the thread is called 'wacked alternative energy ideas' lol.

 

[sheldon]

very true, Wacked does mean messed up so I suppose it is fitting for this thread

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by sheldon
very true, Wacked does mean messed up so I suppose it is fitting for this thread

Dunno - my interpretation would crazy but not stupid. My idea was pretty crazy, but not theoretically impossible.

 

[sheldon]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Dunno - my interpretation would crazy but not stupid. My idea was pretty crazy, but not theoretically impossible.

Yes your idea is completely possible. I have one to add to yours why couldn't we do the same thing but instead of beaming it via serious lasor energy we convert it into electricity in space and then transform it via type of tesla coil that is resonating at a specific frequency and receive it at a station on Earth and step it back down for our use. The high voltage would not have enough current to hurt anything that went through it and the high voltage would allow it to travel through the atmosphere. The resonance of it would allow us to direct it where we wanted it. Since it is in space it could be rather large, and capable of powering the whole planet.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not sure about Tesla's inventions such as energy transfer in that way - too much myth surrounding them and I haven't looked into them enough to separate the myth from the real inventions. In any case, I would suggest multiple (dozens or even hundreds) of receiving stations for several reasons: redundancy, use of existing grids, cost, distribution losses.

One major pro of a source of lots of electricity (as opposed to an corn oil to power cars for example) is that it can be used to replace other forms of energy such as fossil fuels in things like cars. Hydrogen fuel cells are getting a lot of press these days, but they will only be viable if there is a vast increase in the electrical generation capacity of the world.

 

[megashawn]

There isn't much to look into russ. Its really a simple concept. Much like a RC car works, only much larger scale.

I've tested using 2 way radios, only rectifyiny the power output of the speaker and hooking up a small dc motor. The more noise you sent through the radio, the faster the motor would turn.

This is essentially the same concept as tesla's resonating frequency ideas.

Remember, the only reason we still have electricity to discuss this is tesla and his ideas. If edison had his way, we'd be using DC power everywhere.

I'd say if anything, the myth was added by the ppl in control of the power industry at the time to make people disbelieve the possibility of cheap, effiecent energy. Or perhaps, to help perpetuate even older myths that claim man will not survive.

 

[Doc]

The two-way radio experiment is quite flawed. The energy driving your electric motor comes from the power supply NOT in from the antenna. A radio receiver is basically a very high gain amplifier. Amplifiers amplify by taking energy from the power supply and creating a large signal based upon the small signal put into it. Now if you had done this without a power source running the receiver, well I would be interested. Sorry, couldn't resist. The record can show that my opinions on Tesla are, well, my mom taught me to not say anything if I can't say something nice.

 

[russ_watters]

Doc, that's what I had thought too, but I haven't read up on it enough.

 

[sheldon]

That is correct Doc and Russ, The radio waves are too small to power much. Although you can run a crystal radio completely from the power induced into the antenna. Or if you have braces that also may do the trick. I think the point is that the radio waves are energy being transfer across space and received elsewhere. With very high voltages and at resonance of the atmosphere it would easily be possible to transmit massive amounts of power. Lightning is one example of the theory that already exists. Yet lightning is an uncontrolled situation and you know us humans, we MUST HAVE CONTROL! I have heard of people sending small rockets into a cloud with metal tethers/wire attached to them and actually controlling or creating the lightning discharge. I thought this was interesting because now if we could only figure out how to rapidly store that power we could be on to something. The atmosphere is actually a large capacitor just wanting to discharge. We should help it and it can help us. My only thought would be very large capacitors in the ground that can be charged at high microfarads and voltage levels. Also large resistor banks to take up any excess power to protect the caps. And invert the power from them to create AC and allow consumers to utilize the power stored.

 

[nevagil]

less complicated methods

Wouldn't it be easier to work on the simpler alternative sources like "coastal waves that hit the shoreline 24 hours a day" or "solar" or "wind"?
Then when we humans feel we can capture, store and controllably release the energy excellently - then we could work on capturing lighting, etc.

 

[sheldon]

Originally posted by nevagil
Wouldn't it be easier to work on the simpler alternative sources like "coastal waves that hit the shoreline 24 hours a day" or "solar" or "wind"?
Then when we humans feel we can capture, store and controllably release the energy excellently - then we could work on capturing lighting, etc.

Yea the coastal idea is a great idea tap wave power.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Sheldon,
Back to an earlier point in the
thread: The Tesla oscillator is
quite real. He got a patent on it
and many people saw the several
working models he made.

He ran into a great deal of
trouble while designing it be-
cause it is essentially a high
speed reciprocating device. Some
of the early models shook themselves apart. His goal was
to use them to induce high fre-
quency A.C. mechanically. At
some point he discoverd he could
make various objects around his
lab vibrate by tuning the fre-
quency of the oscillator to the
resonant frequency of the object.

Something possessed him one
day to secure it to a support beam
in his lab and see if he couldn't
find the resonant frequency of
the whole building. He did. He
got the building shaking then the
earth around it such that he created a mini earthquake.
He didn't get the oscillator to
vibrate at the Earth's natural
frequency, rather he forced a small section of Earth to vibrate
at the building's resonant fre-
quency.
No particular potential for free
energy in this, but WOW.

 

[Doc]

I have done a little reading on Tesla and of course it isn't the same as knowing the man which none of us can say we have. It seems though, as if he was always onto something but made more out of it than which it really was. I remember reading someone quote him of saying that there is great power in an oscillator/resonance. Well, that is a crock of bull in my opinion. In electronics, resonant circuits seem to pass a fair amount of power with seemingly very little coupling, but it is insane to say that there is some kind of power gain in a resonant circuit or device which is what has been said he believed.

If he was trying to induce current via mechanically vibrating objects, what was he, nuts? What is wrong with a rotary generator? You get the same result of magnetic lines cutting and all that BS with no vibration. Un-needed vibrations in mechanical systems do several things, one which is heat the metal and cause power loss. In general I would say that his experiments are quite interesting and some have actually turned productive for the modern world. If Edison would have had his way I don't think it would have been long lived. Sooner or later (probably sooner) they would have realized that in order to transport power long distances AC would be required. It's not that hard to figure out. It wasn't that hard to figure out at the time. In Edisons system, lights were dim at the end of the long lines because of the loss and since it was DC they couldn't use step up transformers for the long haul. Basically the guy had a resonance fetish. I certainly wouldn't say that he was some kind of electrical god or genius. I WOULD say however, that he THOUGHT that he was.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Tesla, in my opinion, has been
gaining popularity the past 20
years or so as a kind of anti-dote
to over-veneration of Edison.
AC is not Tesla's only claim to
fame, though. He is the first to
invent a working remote control
device, and let's not forget his
other ubiquitous contribution to
every day life: the induction
motor.
These things are not as flashy
and mind bending as motion pictures, recorded sound, and in-
candescent lighting, therefore
Edison has always been THE inven-
tor.
If you like this sort of thing
it's refreshing, when you get
tired of one, to jump to reading
about the other. They both, really
had very high opinions of them-
selves.
To say that Tesla was overly
concerned with the concept of
resonance is almost certainly
true because, as a sufferer of
severe obsessive-compulsive dis-
order, he would tend to be overly
concerned with anything that cros-
sed his mind.
Apparently he was fond of giving
long interviews to the newspapers
and phrasing things in the most
grandiose possible ways. People
hear rumors about an earthquake
machine, a ray gun, free energy.
You can trace all this back to
things he actually did, wanted to
do, and said, but it's never as
it sounded in the rumor.
He remains, though, a very cool
inventor.

 

[JAGGED]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Sheldon,
He ran into a great deal of
trouble while designing it be-
cause it is essentially a high
speed reciprocating device. Some
of the early models shook themselves apart. His goal was
to use them to induce high fre-
quency A.C. mechanically. At
some point he discoverd he could
make various objects around his
lab vibrate by tuning the fre-
quency of the oscillator to the
resonant frequency of the object.

Something possessed him one
day to secure it to a support beam
in his lab and see if he couldn't
find the resonant frequency of
the whole building. He did. He
got the building shaking then the
earth around it such that he created a mini earthquake.
He didn't get the oscillator to
vibrate at the Earth's natural
frequency, rather he forced a small section of Earth to vibrate
at the building's resonant fre-
quency.
No particular potential for free
energy in this, but WOW.

This event really happened ... I might empthisis it was steam powered and the experiment is reproducable with a resonable stereo system..
;-) have fun kiddies ...

As for the wireless transmision of electricity, Tesla definatly designed this and it worked ... however it was financed by Westinghouse who promptly pulled funding once they understood the simple fact .. Anyone with a reciever could tap into the supply of electricity ... how could you charge for it then ? It was designed to be supplied by a hydroelectric dam not some BS aether energy from space. Anyway if you tried to implement it these days everyone who is scared of EMF's would have a fit .. LOL
Not there is a difference between the Tesla coil and "apparatise for the wireless transmition of electricity" they are not the same.

And the colorado Tesla coil was powered (for free) by the local hydrodam until they cooked the entire station... they raised the PD between Ground and the genorators too much I believe but I maybe wrong on that ... they where definitely raising the voltage of ground and possibly useing standing waves inside the earth.

There is a lot of myths around Tesla and seperating the truth from fiction can be hard ... but be sure Tesla was years, no decades ahead of the rest.

As for Tesla's "death ray" I have seen the plans for it and I must say it has some merit ... I believe something very similar appeared in the "Starwars" project .. only it was a few miles long and powered by a nukelear reactor. Esentually a big electron gun or particle cannon ... uses an open vacuum tube ,,, would produce x-rays too I think ...

As for alternate power systems ... I suggest you read up on R Buckminster Fuller ... in particular he proposed replacing fossil fuels with oil extracted from seaweed ... solar power at it's finest if you ask me. Only take about 40,000 sqr. km of ocean to replace the worlds oil supply.. since the Earth is 80% ocean that's nothing.

 

[Uncle Shorty]

the Earth must vibrate

The Earth must have a electric vibration of so many cycles of electric current. If you could take those vibration fead them into a massive tesla coil to step up the charge.