Was My Gym Teacher Out of Line?

[pineapples]

Today my gym teacher insulted me in front of everyone and made me cry.
I didn't dress out for gym because my gymsuit was freaking nasty dirty. Thats not a big deal, it's a once a month thing, but he SINGALED me out of the whole class for it when two other ppl do this every day. Anyway, we were doing this fitness day thing. stuuuuuupid. So Then, I started walking to the locker room. He said, "Maggie where are you going?" and I said "The bathroom" and he said "Finsih this first". So I finished the stupid station I was at. Then I went. I got back out, and he's mad at me! "I said FINSIH this first!" and I was like, "I did!" and he said, "I meant the whole ting course!" HOW was I supposed to know?? That doesn't even make sense! But that REALLY set him off. Ooooh, I'm soooo bad. So he took me into the office and said I had an "attitude problem". He never even warned me! Then he asked my phone number and started calling my house! For this one little thing! I was SO mad, I sent out hate vibes as strong as possible and stared him in the eye the whooole time. he started yelling that "I get this all the time from you 8th grade, G/T (gifted/talented) students! You have this condescending, rude, 'I don't want to be here, I'm above you all' kind of attitude" Uhm, hello! He just described himself! He thinks he's the supreme ruler of EVERY little thing. WHERE is he getting this from?? Two other people have these attitudes every day and not once has he picked on them or yelled at them! He gave a whole long speech and let's just say it would insult ANY one and it was very rude! Eventually I got tired of staring at his ugly, hairy, wrinkly, distorted face and all my hate/anger vibes had run out and i couldn't hold it in so I started crying. plus people were making faces at me in the window. i haaaate himm!

Now here's the thing: do you think he was out of line? Did he have a right to go off on me just for that? And two other people who always do much worse than me, and who happen to NOT be in G/T and who happen to be popular, he has never disciplined? On a side note, he does this to my friend Sarah too. We have the same personality and she's in G/T (gifted and talented classes), too. He insults her and critcizes her and kind of mocks her in front of the class. Maybe its in his personality, but...he's made her cry, too! In front of everyone!
OK, rant over. Do you think this is OK?

 

[Vincent Vega]

If you feel threatened by the faculty get your parents involved and order a sit down. It's possible that he might have some psychological issues towards females?

 

[JasonRox]

Your first post is this?

Most teachers are messed up. It's no wonder teachers don't have the respect they used to have.

 

[chroot]

Eventually I got tired of staring at his ugly, hairy, wrinkly, distorted face and all my hate/anger vibes had run out

Well, even though you're pissed off, it does sound like you're a little condescending and rude. If you get into a power struggle with a teacher, they will almost always win. Sometimes the teacher starts the power struggle, but it always takes two to escalate it. Get over it, and find something more worthy of your 'hate vibes.' Better yet, get over it, and stop sending so many 'hate vibes,' period. This whole incident is really pathetically unimportant, and is not worthy of your (or my) concern.

- Warren

 

[JamesU]

Yeah, just leave it alone and ignore him, unless it continues and becomes a bigger issue. But for now, it doesn't seem to serious.

 

[pallidin]

...Most teachers are messed up...

Jason, that statement is not only unqualified, it is also wrong to make such a statement to a student.

 

[Rach3]

I think sending "hate vibes" at a person would, indeed, consitute an attitude problem.

 

[JamesU]

I think she just mean she was angry

 

[Rach3]

Jason, that statement is not only unqualified, it is also wrong to make such a statement to a student.

Why so?The message I have entered is too short. Please lengthen my message to 10 characters.

 

[Rach3]

I think she just mean she was angry

I think it meant she didn't even try to conceal her anger.

 

[JamesU]

Why would she try to?

 

[FredGarvin]

You're a spoiled little brat which means you are an average 8th grade kid. Just realize that in 5 or so years you'll realize what a little moron you were and you'll move on with your life. At least we hope so.

Nice first post. I can think of no better way to introduce yourself to a forum of strangers than an emo outburst. I want those 2 minutes of my life back that I used to read it.

Jason, I think I have to agree with Pallidin. Blanket statements like that to someone, who is obviously trolling for comments like that, are not productive and help no one.

 

[JamesU]

1) I'm assuming that that was directed towards pineapples...?
2) if so... That was a little harsh...they were just angry

 

[Rach3]

Why would she try to?

Usually it helps to feign civility.

 

[JamesU]

And do you think the teacher was showing civility? At least from what she wrote, it doesn't sound like it...

 

[heartless]

Yeah, it's right. Showing people that you "hate" them or showing them an attitude isn't a good thing. Just to be pollite and nice, you could go before the class and just explain the situation, that would put the things straight forward.

"Eventually I got tired of staring at his ugly, hairy, wrinkly, distorted face and all my hate/anger vibes had run out and i couldn't hold it in so I started crying. plus people were making faces at me in the window. i haaaate himm!"

Why ugly? why wrinkly? It's better to judge people after their thoughts and personality than look. You see, you don't choose how you want to look, God made us all the same, and you aren't any better than him nor he's isn't better than you. Else, if you hate people, try to fix it. Power is in your hands. Go on and talk to him, say that it was your fault, as you were the person to cause the situation, maybe he wasn't polite to you but it doesn't matter. Learn to fix your and maybe even others' mistakes. Together we can build a better world.

Thanks,

 

[Rach3]

And do you think the teacher was showing civility? At least from what she wrote, it doesn't sound like it...

From what she wrote, it seems to be a drastic overreaction to nothing important.

 

[pallidin]

Oh for God's sake! You, as an adult, are attacking an 8th grader with words such as "moron" ?
I am truly disgusted.
She came here to "vent" and for help. In return she get's direct insults and sarcasm.

 

[chroot]

Well, she's indicated in a single post that not only does she think everything the teacher tells her to do is stupid, but that she also thoroughly dislikes him in general.

Maggie, regardless of whether or not your teacher is deserving of such an attitude, such language doesn't exactly make you look like the cool, rational person you probably want us to think you are.

Since we don't have his side of the story, we can really only speculate about how he feels about you. From the sound of it, you've already had repeated unpleasant interactions with him, even to the point that you've become hypersensitive to the way he interacts with others in your class. This indicates, to me, that you're probably looking for any reason at all to get upset with him these days -- in other words, spoiling for a fight.

The best thing you can do now -- even if it's difficult -- is to approach him when you're both cooled off, offer him a handshake, tell him you're sorry for the confrontation, and come to an agreement with him that you'll both try to be a little more accomodating of the other.

If you continue sending 'hate vibes' at him and generally interacting with him like a child, you will surely continue to be treated like a child.

- Warren

 

[JamesU]

Yeah, it's right. Showing people that you "hate" them or showing them an attitude isn't a good thing. Just to be pollite and nice, you could go before the class and just explain the situation, that would put the things straight forward.

"Eventually I got tired of staring at his ugly, hairy, wrinkly, distorted face and all my hate/anger vibes had run out and i couldn't hold it in so I started crying. plus people were making faces at me in the window. i haaaate himm!"

Why ugly? why wrinkly? It's better to judge people after their thoughts and personality than look. You see, you don't choose how you want to look, God made us all the same, and you aren't any better than him nor he's isn't better than you. Else, if you hate people, try to fix it. Power is in your hands.
Thanks,

I get what you mean, but she was just angry. Alot of people prejudge people when they're angry..

I agree with the solution you requested to her though

 

[jimmie]

Do you think this is OK?

Absolutely not!

Perhaps, if I had been in your situation, I would have asked permission to go to the bathroom at the outset, thereby reaffirming the status quo authority figure/student relationship; rather than simply walking away from the said task and possibly signalling to the instructor your disdain for the said task, which could also be construed as disdain for the instructor's position, and possibly the individual residing therein.

Perhaps it was that unconscious signal to that individual that acted as the thorn is his side, and maybe, he was determined to reaffirm the status quo in your head that, perhaps, he believed you threatened.

For the status quo to be successful, it takes the two parts to understand their place and accept it.

Nevertheless, regardless of your actions, any instructor intent on insulting, criticizing or mocking a student might instruct, but they do not teach.

 

[Astronuc]

From my position, it is inappropriate for a teacher to insult or humiliate a student, and it appears this teacher was out of line.

However, I think the student also mishandled the situation. First, the student could have said something like, "Excuse me," or "Pardon me", and then explain the reason for not wearing the gym suit. Perhaps even ask for an alternative.

A student cannot simply walk away from a teacher, especially in front of a class. A student cannot admonish a teacher, even if the teacher misbehaves, in front of a class. To do so undermines the authority of the teacher.

The student must ask a teacher to be excused in order to leave the classroom, and the student might have to wait.

Respect must be mutual and reciprocal. This is my approach in all human interaction, including work and in teaching.

 

[Jeff Ford]

It sounds like you just don't like gym class

 

[JasonRox]

Jason, that statement is not only unqualified, it is also wrong to make such a statement to a student.

It's best to think everyone is messed up and stupid. That way if anything messed up or stupid happens, you won't be surprised. It works very well just ask Marcus Aurelius.

 

[BobG]

Not a single reply from anyone who has been a girl in the 8th grade? Or at least from someone who has had a daughter in the 8th grade?

My daughter failed a semester of gym class because she didn't want to be seen in a swim suit - unfortunately, she managed to keep it quiet until she'd already failed the class. It boggled my mind how someone on the soccer team could fail gym class, resulting in being ineligible for the soccer team for a semester, let alone someone who would have made the honor roll except for the F.

It isn't rational - it's being a girl in the 8th grade.

 

[Astronuc]

In junior high, boys had to swim naked - in winter time no less. We never did understand why, because the boys swim team wore bathing suits. Apparently the logic was that the staff did not want boys leaving wet trunks in metal lockers.

But -

Girls got to wear bathing suits.

 

[pallidin]

Respect must be mutual and reciprocal. This is my approach in all human interaction, including work and in teaching.

I understand your entire post. However, from the statement I quoted from you, allow me this perspective:

It is NOT reasonably possible to expect an 8th-grader to have the maturity of an adult; be it intellectually or emotionally.
It IS the responsibility of an adult educator to fully recognize this and conduct him/herself accordingly.

 

[russ_watters]

Rach3 is right about feigning civility. There are many situations in life where you just have to accept that the person you are up against is holding all the cards and you have no choice but to treat them that way. Whether it is the cop who pulled you over for speeding or a dumb gas company employee who'se only goal in life is to avoid being hassled (a current thorn in my side), swallowing your pride and accepting that they are god of their little kingdom is the easiest way to avoid a conflict (you want to avoid a conflict with someone you can't beat).

This is a critical life skill you are learning here.

 

[russ_watters]

It isn't rational - it's being a girl in the 8th grade.

Good point, but it is still a good idea to provide rational advice if we can...

 

[pallidin]

It's best to think everyone is messed up and stupid...

There you go again! Why?
In my opinion, educators are under-appreciated and under-paid.

 

[Pengwuino]

In junior high, boys had to swim naked - in winter time no less. We never did understand why, because the boys swim team wore bathing suits. Apparently the logic was that the staff did not want boys leaving wet trunks in metal lockers.

*prays to his God that this is a joke*

 

[russ_watters]

I have a pretty high opinion of most teachers. But gym teachers? Ehh...

 

[Pengwuino]

I have a pretty low opinion of most teachers. They always (before high school) tend to be the dreamy "i can save the world personally" types that barely got into college and really have no business attempting to educate our children. They kinda act a bit irrational and all seem to have this artsy lightheaded personality. While it's great for all this creativity bs, it doesn't sustain an economy.

High school teachers don't act that way however. I can't really make a generalization about the teachers I've had personally. College professors just love their job it seems... except lecturers there part time haha.

 

[JasonRox]

There you go again! Why?
In my opinion, educators are under-appreciated and under-paid.

It's an inside comment you clearly don't understand. It's actually a good thing to think that way, but I won't bother to explain because it's just not practical to explain on here.

If you want to know, read about Stoic Ethics and then read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.

 

[Pengwuino]

It's not practical to explain so you tell them to go read a whole book?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Pineapples: Everyone else seems to have covered the bases. The only thing I would add is that if you think that this teacher has some issue with 'gifted' students and singles them out then find a few others who are subject to this as well and speak with a teacher or whom ever else is part of the 'gifted' student program. Whom ever is part of it should likely be sympathetic and if you have multiple real examples of harassment then something may be done about it. Realize though that this teacher is unlikely to be fired for any minor offense and if he thinks that you have 'snitched' then he will regard you as even more of an enemy than he already does. It may be a good idea anyway though so that incase one day he does go way too far there will be past complaints showing his tendancies. First though be sure you are not overreacting.

 

[JasonRox]

It's not practical to explain so you tell them to go read a whole book?

That's why it isn't practical to explain!

You really do need to read about the amount of a book. Not only that, you should also discuss it with someone who knows philosophy very well (professor).

Although I understand it, I'm not the person to discuss things with. So if I attempt to explain anything, you will come up with questions that I may be able to answer... then you will assume the theory falls apart because I can't answer a particular question, which in turn does not give the theory any justice.

 

[fourier jr]

Rach3 is right. There are many situations in life where you just have to accept that the person you are up against is holding all the cards and you have no choice but to treat them that way. Whether it is the cop who pulled you over for speeding or a dumb gas company employee who'se only goal in life is to avoid being hassled (a current thorn in my side), swallowing your pride and accepting that they are god of their little kingdom is the easiest way to avoid a conflict (you want to avoid a conflict with someone you can't beat).

This is a critical life skill you are learning here.

sadly, i have to agree. after living with my dad (similar bully/coward grade 8 teacher) i can definitely vouch for that. if you get on a teacher's bad side, you can NEVER win. take it from me, it's a virtual law of nature that a schoolteacher will never see things a student's way. after many years of putting up with **** like what pineapples put up with virtually on a daily basis i have yet to come across an exception to this rule. i also happened to go to the school my dad teaches at for grades 6-8 & i noticed similar (successful, as a rule) attempts to degrade & disrespect the students there from the other teachers. one of my dad's favorite sayings is "the nail that sticks out most gets hit the hardest"; conspicuously absent is any reference to learning or self-improvement of any kind. from my experience at that school anyway it was more about control, coercion, manipulation & obedience rather than any real learning.

 

[pallidin]

There are many situations in life where you just have to accept that the person you are up against is holding all the cards and you have no choice but to treat them that way.
This is a critical life skill you are learning here.

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

 

[Moonbear]

Not a single reply from anyone who has been a girl in the 8th grade? Or at least from someone who has had a daughter in the 8th grade?

My daughter failed a semester of gym class because she didn't want to be seen in a swim suit - unfortunately, she managed to keep it quiet until she'd already failed the class. It boggled my mind how someone on the soccer team could fail gym class, resulting in being ineligible for the soccer team for a semester, let alone someone who would have made the honor roll except for the F.

It isn't rational - it's being a girl in the 8th grade.

Well, with that last line, someone who was once an 8th grade girl is definitely going to respond.

The teacher is not out of line to chastise you for not wearing your gym suit. If it was to the point of being so "nasty filthy" that you couldn't stand to wear it, you should have taken it home to wash quite some time ago. The reason you're not supposed to participate in gym class in your street clothes is the same reason that gym suit is "nasty filthy," because you work up a sweat and stink, and by changing clothes, you aren't walking around subjecting everyone to that sweat and stink all day long (they might be more lenient if gym is your last class of the day and you're going straight home).

Having been an 8th grade girl once, the concept of letting your gym clothes get that nasty is, well, nasty in and of itself. We all took our gym clothes home on Friday, laundered them on the weekend, and returned with them on Monday. And we got yelled at and were not permitted to participate if we forgot our gym clothes on Monday (and yes, this led to the occassional frantic phone call to mom the moment the forgetfulness was realized, just hoping she'd be able to get out of work long enough to drop the gym clothes off at school before gym class, so we wouldn't get a 0 for the day for not participating due to lack of appropriate clothing, or we hoped our friends had enough spare clothing to make do).

There is also never any point in trying to justify your own misconduct by pointing out that others are doing it. There may be a very good reason the teacher doesn't chastise the others who do not change into gym clothing, such as they are already failing and it's not worth the hassle anymore. You have no way to know that, and it's none of your business. You know the rules and are supposed to follow them.

As for it being "stupid," I'm sure that's exactly the attitude the teacher picked up on. Instead of saying, "I'm sorry, I forgot to take my gym clothes home to wash and they are too dirty to wear today," or, "I know, I'm sorry, is it possible I could borrow some from somebody," you probably just rolled your eyes and muttered under your breath. That's the attitude that's coming across in the opening post.

By the way, there is also no reason that an honors student cannot get an A in gym class. Gym class is usually graded on effort and improvement much more than actual skill. I was horrible in gym class for anything that required running, because I'm just a slow runner. So, whether it was softball or soccer or the 600 meter run, I was the one who never made it to first base, or got the ball passed to me, and was dead last, huffing and puffing when I completed the run, but I always tried my hardest, worked on improving my skills, played my position even if everyone kept the ball away, once really surprised my class when they discovered I was great at free-throws in basketball because they had just come to assume I was hopelessly non-athletic, and always finished the run, even if I felt like I was going to die first. That attitude of trying to do your best, even when it's something you're absolutely awful at doing, is a good life skill to develop. Deciding it's "stupid" because you're not very good at it is called quitting, and that's not a good life skill to have.

Ooh, but then 8th grade was also the year we learned archery in gym class, and I finally found a sport I could beat the other students at. That was fun. And, I think it was also 8th grade when we did weight lifting. Thanks to the rate of physical development differing between boys and girls at that age, I had the immense pleasure of gloating that I was able to bench press more than one of the boys in my class who was on the JV football team. It's always fun when the "non-athletic, geeky" kid can beat someone on the football team at something in gym class, especially when that non-athletic, geeky kid is a girl.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Yep, humble pie doesn't taste good but sometimes you have to eat it.

Humiliation can also be seen as asserting power over another by showing ones dominance. That can be translated as abuse real quick like. No matter if an 8th grader pushed buttons or not, public humiliation has no place in any school. Some kids with superior minds can be emotionally and socially sensitive.

 

[Moonbear]

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

In a gym class? How much "outside-the-box" thinking is developed in a gym class? Russ is right, it's an important skill to learn to recognize when it's worth making a big fuss over something and fighting the system, and when it's just better to say, "I'm sorry," even if you really aren't, and put it behind you so you can move forward with other things you need to get done.

 

[Pengwuino]

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

It dicates an ordered world. Letting kids have their way in a school has never been tried for various obvious reasons

 

[Pengwuino]

In a gym class? How much "outside-the-box" thinking is developed in a gym class? Russ is right, it's an important skill to learn to recognize when it's worth making a big fuss over something and fighting the system, and when it's just better to say, "I'm sorry," even if you really aren't, and put it behind you so you can move forward with other things you need to get done.

What do they say, "You're as big of a person as the things that set you off" or something.

Thus, i am microscopic.

 

[pallidin]

Yep, humble pie doesn't taste good but sometimes you have to eat it.

Humiliation can also be seen as asserting power over another by showing ones dominance. That can be translated as abuse real quick like. No matter if an 8th grader pushed buttons or not, public humiliation has no place in any school. Some kids with superior minds can be emotionally and socially sensitive.

I MUST AGREEE.

Peer humiliation of an 8th-grader by an educator has NO PLACE, NO REASON, and NO JUSTIFICATION.

Do it in military "boot camps" with adult enlistee's? Fine.
Don't do it with minors. They WILL end-up HATING authority. Get it?

 

[pallidin]

...Letting kids have their way in a school has never been tried for various obvious reasons

I would NEVER advocate having any kid have "their own way" in school, or elsewise. What I am against is "superiority-complex" teachers that openly demean the student; damaging their fragile psyche.
Damage? Oh yes.

 

[Pengwuino]

Very very few have superiority-complexes... that's an absurd generalization

 

[Moonbear]

I MUST AGREEE.

Peer humiliation of an 8th-grader by an educator has NO PLACE, NO REASON, and NO JUSTIFICATION.

Do it in military "boot camps" with adult enlistee's? Fine.
Don't do it with minors. They WILL end-up HATING authority. Get it?

From the description provided, the teacher did not do anything to humiliate the student in front of others. He has to enforce the rules, so it is his obligation to say something about inappropriate attire.

And, being told to finish what you're doing before being excused to leave, especially when you did not ask permission prior to walking out, is also reasonable behavior for a teacher. Again, teachers are responsible for their students' whereabouts, so you can't just allow them to wander off wherever and whenever they want. A student should always ask and obtain permission before leaving the classroom for any reason.

The remainder of the discussion took place in the teacher's office, which is NOT in front of all the other students, and is the appropriate place for the more stern disciplinary action, including calling one's parents. That she claims she was staring the teacher down and sending "anger vibes" tells me she was very likely copping an attitude. How do you NOT have an attitude when sending "anger vibes," whatever that is? I'm going to have to assume it's what was called "defiance" and "sass" when I was in school.

 

[jimmie]

I do not agree with any instructor that temporarily prohibits any student from going to the bathroom, whether that student asked for permission or not.

When you got to go, you got to go.

 

[fourier jr]

Most teachers are messed up. It's no wonder teachers don't have the respect they used to have.

i had a couple awesome teachers in high school; the middle school (grades 6-8) teachers (my dad's colleagues) were generally very messed up though. what they did didn't seem to have a lot to do with learning & had everything to do with 'babysitting'.

from www.maledicta.org, the website of the international journal of verbal aggression, "attitude" is roughly defined as follows (learned when the publisher/editor spent time in prison):

the display of annoyance, hostility, contempt, courage, or an unbroken spirit toward the insecure, authoritarian prison staff and questioning their actions -- all severely disapproved of and punished.

(could easily replace "prison staff" with "middle-school teacher", from my experience anyway)