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News We are ready to attack Iran

  1. May 17, 2012 #1
    "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/ready+attack+Iran+admits/6639863/story.html [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. May 17, 2012 #2

    turbo

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    [conspiracy theory deleted] Do we need another huge war in the ME? And do we need to pay for it and sacrifice the lives of service-members? I hate this gamesmanship and the potential that the end-game (war) could be be forced on us for the sake of politics, and not not necessity.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2012
  4. May 17, 2012 #3
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Nice way to go to a WW3, Russia and China already said some weeks ago they'd support Iran. It's a consequence of the "alliance" (I don't like to call it alliance, because I don't see reciprocity) with Israel, which in turn is a consequence of the influence the rich zionist lobbies have in Washington.
     
  5. May 17, 2012 #4

    Hurkyl

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    [response to conspiracy theory deleted]
    An interesting topic. Since you obviously think not, would you care to share your reasons why you think it's not worth going to war over?

    How else do you pay for war? Are you suggesting that we go back to fighting wars by proxy?

    What does this have to do with anything?

    Wars are never necessary. The other guy could always decide to give you want you want. You always have the option to abandon everything worth fighting for.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2012
  6. May 17, 2012 #5
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    [conspiracy theory deleted]

    It's the contrary: when you're preparing to go into a war, you're the one who has to give the reasons for it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2012
  7. May 18, 2012 #6

    turbo

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Not in the US. The people hell-bent for war give lame excuses, not real reasons, which is why there are so many Iraqi refugees and so many Iraqi dead. War is big business and wars of choice kill so many of our young service members along with innocent foreigners. We don't need more of this. Stop the aggression, so fewer people will die. If the US is attacked (by whom, BTW?) there might be some justification for a war, but picking sides in some conflict half-way across the world (or starting one!) is hardly a justifiable reason for risking our troops. I have a nephew who is a lifer and might be retiring in the next few years, and I don't want to see his daughter's father killed off for the sake of a war of choice. I have a lot of beefs with Ron Paul and his ideas, but we're on the same page with this one.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  8. May 18, 2012 #7

    chiro

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    The thing with war is that philosophically or idealistically, people will always choose whatever way that either suits them or that they can rationalize for war and unfortunately people with ideologies are very hard pressed to have their views change and this is whether they are right in some respects, wrong in others or some other kind of extreme.

    I don't like to criticize people completely no matter how insane their outlook because a lot of people sincerely believe things that they have been told and some believe this with the conviction that it is really 'the right thing to do'. I don't know about right and wrong: the only thing I know is that everything is relative and that everything has consequences and from these causes and effects, we all decide individually and collectively the world that we individually and collectively want to live in. If we decide to choose war, then we will face the consequences of war but I'm pretty certain that if people knew what it was really like in war-like situations then most people would not support it.

    However one thing that I think everyone can agree on that has no link to ideology is the effect that war has economically.

    War drains resources in every possible way and it takes resources away from the public. It's the whole butter or guns idea but taken to a lot higher of a level.

    People can justify anything the way they want (and they do and they will keep doing), but everyone can put aside their differences and agree that war is economically the stupidest thing to do and this translates to a situation where everything literally breaks down, and no-matter what kind of person you are, you can't deny this effect no matter what kind of views you hold.
     
  9. May 18, 2012 #8

    russ_watters

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    How many times have we had this discussion?? The military plans for war. That's their job. These plans may have little connection with the political realities of if the wars will happen, but that doesn't matter very much: the military must be prepared in advance for a very wide variety of possibilities.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  10. May 18, 2012 #9
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Don't we also have contingency plans to invade Canada?

    What I don't like is the chest-thumping drum-beating I'm hearing. I think that's more likely to isolate Iran further from the international community than it is to bring them together for negotiations.

    If we follow through with our threat to attack Iran based on their desire for nuclear power (and on mere suspicion of nuclear weapons), I might need to leave this country.

    But I hope russ is right, and that this has nothing to do with the "political realities of if the wards will happen."
     
  11. May 18, 2012 #10
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    The Pentagon has contingencies for everything, but they don't say "oh hey China, we've got a contingency for nuking the hell out of you in case you go and try to do this" unless they've got a good reason to say it.
     
  12. May 18, 2012 #11
  13. May 18, 2012 #12

    Ryan_m_b

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Agreed. There's been a rather large series of exercises across the UK recently that have made the news, the various sectors of the armed forces have played a number of war games simulating all sorts of scenarios including if a cyber attack disrupted communications and infrastructure across the country. That's what they're there for.

    The fault here lies with whoever started making these statements. It's one thing for your military to plan for multiple eventualities but it's quite another to brag about your plans against another country in a way that could be construded as aggressive. There's a significant difference between being prepared for an eventuality and preparing for an eventuality.
     
  14. May 18, 2012 #13
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    I've reread the story a couple times and I think what prompted this aggressive tone is explained here:

    I think the remarks were aimed less at Iran and more at Israel. There's a clear indication that Israel is chomping at the bit, and wants to start something soon, completely on its own. Rattling our sabre at Iran was quite likely intended to assure Israel that action can be delayed quite a bit more without putting them in a worse position, that we "have their back".
     
  15. May 18, 2012 #14
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Turbo, there have been three wars neo-cons have gotten us into, the Iraq war, Afganistan and the civil war. Liberals have gotten us into world war 1, world war2, vietnam. If I went into it further the numbers wouldn equal out as well, conservatives have gotten us into 0.0! You can't compare apples and apples and make an argument.
     
  16. May 18, 2012 #15
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    I believe bragging about simulations is a part of the psychological warfare (or propaganda). Perhaps, US wants to let Iran know that it's all prepared to carry out an attack.

    Few other related examples could be when US released selected Laden documents or when North Korea released fake missile pictures
    All I am trying to get at is releasing correct/wrong information about your activities to influence your enemies' actions is very common practice.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  17. May 19, 2012 #16

    Hurkyl

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Even if true, is this really relevant to the thread, or just looking for an excuse to soapbox on one's favorite topics?


    The reasons to prepare for war are obvious -- if a war is to happen, it's better to be prepared for it than to be caught flat-footed. :smile:

    But I assume you mean something closer to "gearing up for war".


    The one advocating a position has a burden to defend their position. While Turbo phrases himself as a question, it's clear that they were meant rhetorically and he's pushing an anti-war stance.

    And, as far as I can tell, the sentiment he's pushing is completely oblivious to the situation at hand. If all he is doing is spouting the generic "war is bad" ideology then he is detracting from the discussion.

    Why is this detracting from the discussion? First off, it adds nothing -- everybody already knows the generic "war is bad". Simply stating the fact won't influence someone who already decided that it's worth going to war anyways, and has the potential to turn off the minds of those who believe it's not worth going to war as they rally around the empty comment.
     
  18. May 19, 2012 #17

    chiro

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    While I agree that nation states have a right to defend their own territory and sovereignty, the thing about attacks like the Iranian one is that this kind of action does not constitute any kind of defensive action whatsoever, but is more or less offensive in nature.

    Iran hasn't done anything and they have not created an offensive action against the United States.

    This whole 'pre-emptive' crap is just that: crap. This dangerous thing sets a precedent that every kind of excuse for something that 'may happen' used as a pretext for some kind of war is really really sad.

    If nation states want to protect themselves, their citizens, their land and resources and their sovereignty then fine, let them do that: I don't blame them. But when you get someone doing an offensive action and claiming the reason as a 'pre-textual' or 'pre-emptive' one, then all that is being done is to use linguistic tricks to hide an otherwise offensive behaviour.
     
  19. May 19, 2012 #18
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    The neo-conservatives, the Middle East wars (which are connected to the neo-conservatives) and this news don't have anything to do with each other? This would be another Middle East war... :rolleyes: I only assumed that if something is obviously connected to this news, it should be posted, and that's what I did.

    I meant: When you want to go to a war, you're the one who has to give reasons for it.

    I know turbo was pushing an anti-war stance, and what I said was that he doesn't have to defend his position at this point (war's negative consequences are too well known, is it even worth it posting them here?), when nobody even gave any reason for going to war - the people who are pro-war are the ones who have to defend their position right now. And since there wasn't any discussion before, he wasn't detracting from the discussion. If it was on a middle of a discussion, with people presenting arguments in favor of war, then I agree he'd be detracting from the discussion.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  20. May 19, 2012 #19

    Bobbywhy

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    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Nobel winner Günter Grass faults Israel for claiming a “first-strike” justification
    To attack Iran, as it destroyed both Iraq’s reactor and Syria’s nuclear installation
    His poem “What Must Be Said” was derided with “anti-Semitic!” condemnation
    And his unwanted permission to visit Israel with visa was subjected to revocation
    Israel’s clamoring to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities is a propaganda manipulation
    An adversary’s development of nuclear capability equals a “casus belli” violation
    Such that it requires immediate diplomatic, clandestine, and military mobilization

    Israeli poet Itamar Yaoz-Kest counter-attacked Grass with great moral indignation
    Using a fantastic interpretation of news reports to design a fabricated motivation
    Claiming in stentorian tones the “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map” allegation
    And using his status as a Holocaust survivor to bolster his own pronunciation
    While ignoring Charlie Rose’s public interview with Ahmadinejad’s explanation:

    “The Soviet Union doesn't exist on the map anymore, now it’s Russia.
    Doesn't mean all Russians are dead.
    In South Africa the apartheid regime doesn't exist anymore.
    Doesn't mean that all South Africans are dead.”

    Yaoz-Kest’s false propaganda argument is obviously a fallacy by equivocation
    And he continued with arrogant authority to spew out the following vulgarization:

    “Nevertheless, there is a right belonging only to the Jews. This is the right to take with us as we are being annihilated this satiated world, grand libraries and spiritually uplifting music and all – into the nothingness, to share our ruin and our descent into the grave. Then radioactive rays will poison the four directions of the sky for all the inhabitants of earth.

    Yes, we have the right!/ and this is also my right!/ the right of the people of Israel to close shut the creaking gates of the world/ upon its final descent from the stage of history/with the power of the final weapon/ and we have the right to declare/ at the price of the great fear born of three thousand years/ “If you force us again to descend from the face of the earth to its depths/,the entire globe will be turned back into nothingness.”
     
  21. May 19, 2012 #20
    Re: "We are ready to attack Iran..."

    Which lends much credence to what i said in post #13. The US is probably not rattling its saber here to intimidate Iran so much as to mollify Israel.
     
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