What are the key theories used to predict galaxy rotation curves?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical predictions of galaxy rotation curves, particularly focusing on the articles and methodologies used to calculate and compare these curves with observational data. Participants explore various approaches, including general relativity (GR) and Newtonian mechanics, and express interest in rigorous theoretical frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the key articles used to derive expected galaxy rotation curves, suggesting that there may be major references commonly cited in the literature.
  • Another participant references a specific paper by Vera Rubin that provides an overview of galaxy rotation curves but notes its heavy reliance on references, indicating a desire for more rigorous theoretical content.
  • There is a suggestion that general relativity is not typically considered in the calculation of galaxy rotation curves, with a focus on Newtonian mechanics instead.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about higher-order approximations from GR and their potential effects on galactic dynamics, including frame dragging and non-Euclidean geometry.
  • Another participant challenges the relevance of time dilation in this context and expresses skepticism towards modified theories like MOND, preferring a more traditional approach to understanding velocity distributions.
  • A participant shares a link to a paper discussing scalar fields and dust, suggesting it may be relevant to the topic at hand.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the relevance of general relativity in the context of galaxy rotation curves. While some argue that GR effects are negligible, others suggest that they could play a significant role. There is no consensus on the best approach or the importance of various theoretical frameworks.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of determining galaxy rotation curves, particularly when considering higher-order effects and unknown density profiles. There is a recognition that the discussion is limited by the assumptions and definitions used in the analysis.

Hepth
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
458
Reaction score
40
Do any of you know which article(s) are used to do the "expected" rotation curve for galaxies, that always seem to be used to compare with data for calculating the distribution of dark matter?
I'm just trying to find which authors have worked out a published result for the theoretical predictions. I assume there are one or two "major" ones that everyone references.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
Hepth, for a great overview of how galaxy rotation curves are both calculated and measured see:

arXiv:astro-ph/0010594

Vera Rubin is one of the two authors, and she is considered one of the pioneers in this field.
Cheers,
Bobbywhy
 
I read through that and while it answers some questions about density profiling (polytrpoic indices from exp, etc) the majority of the paper is references! hehe, its pretty hard to dig through actually.

The author you mentioned is also more of an experimentalist. Or rather doing theory on physical observables.

I'm looking for something more rigorous, like GR calculations/approximations for various density distributions with different metrics.

Thanks!
 
I suggest you try going to the arXiv page and typing in your query. For example, I entered "rotation curves general relativity" and got 353 different papers! A more refined search there may help you in your quest.
 
Hepth, no one worries about GR when calculating rotation curves of galaxies. The only time people worry about GR is when they are doing calculations for stuff near a compact object (i.e. black hole, neutron star, white dwarf).
 
Well, part of my reasoning for looking for the paper was wondering what is the next order approx from GR over Newtonian. And what about things like LL coupling (frame dragging, etc). I know they all have to be VERY small compared to leading order, but i was just curious.
 
Hepth, higher order effects, although small, may play an important role in galactic dynamics. Frame dragging (now verified thanks to the GP-B experiment) is a factor especially on galactic scales. Does the non-Euclidean geometry of a rotating disc affect the perceived location of the emitters? Does the time dilation towards the periphery affect the received frequencies?

The fact that GR and SR have not been considered in determining rotation curves means the “Dark Matter” problem may continue to be shrouded in mystery. I urge you to continue your research.
 
Well, GR isn't my area of research, I'm high energy theory. Which is why, before wasting my time doing it myself (tedious for someone unpracticed), I was looking for anyone that has done a complete analysis.

I'm sure the complexities of a locally dynamic metric, coupled with unknown density profiles, causes a lot of headaches in determining things to higher orders.
I guess I'll just read up more so that exactly what I'm searching for becomes more focused.
 
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0264-9381/18/23/303

is actually a good read for two scalar fields+dust. Need IOP or a guest account though.
 
  • #10
Hepth, I think we can safely rule out time dilation. bombardil is on the right track. MOND is not a good option, if that is where you are going with this.
 
  • #11
I didn't suggest time dilation, and MOND, haha no. I'm not into fancy new theories that throw out proven concepts in favor of modifying classical ones.

I'm just trying to learn the pure, simple, as complete as can be, general relativistic approach to the velocity distribution curves. GR is more than just a next order radial approximation to Newton, and I wanted to see, at what scales for galaxies does things like angular flow/ "classical spin"/ coupling to the galaxy rotation, etc for a test star come into play.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 72 ·
3
Replies
72
Views
11K