What Are the Net Forces Acting on the Kuiper Belt Object Ultima Thule?

  • Thread starter Thread starter OmCheeto
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Forces Net
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on calculating the net forces acting on the Kuiper Belt object Ultima Thule, focusing on gravitational and centrifugal forces at two extreme points. The gravitational acceleration at point A is calculated to be 0.002644 m/s², while at point B it is 0.002238 m/s². The centrifugal accelerations are determined to be 0.000179 m/s² at point A and 0.000241 m/s² at point B. The net accelerations are found to be 0.0025 m/s² and 0.0020 m/s², respectively, with gravitational to centrifugal force ratios of 15 and 9.3. The calculations are verified against known values, indicating consistency with gravitational laws and the object's physical properties.
OmCheeto
Gold Member
Messages
2,471
Reaction score
3,326

Homework Statement


[/B]
A Kuiper Belt object, Ultima Thule, rotates once every 15 hours.
It has an estimated density of 1000 kg/m^3.
Ultima, the larger sphere, has a radius of 9000 meters.
Thule, the smaller sphere, has a radius of 6500 meters.
The center of rotation is 4200 meters from the center of Ultima.
G = 6.674E-11 m^3⋅kg−1⋅s−2

a. Find the net forces at the extreme points, A & B. Express the answers as acceleration.
b. Find the ratio of the gravitational to centrifugal forces

2019.01.06.pf.Ultima.Thule.hw.problem.png

x coordinates are in meters


2. Homework Equations


Force of gravity = G M1m2/r^2
Centrifugal force = mrω²
F = ma

The Attempt at a Solution



Step 1
The accelerations can be found by setting F = ma equal to the two forces, and eliminating m.
F = ma = GM1m2/r^2
a = GM1/r^2​
F = ma = mrω²
a = rω²
Step 2
I found the volumes and masses of the two spheres
Ultima:
volume = 4/3π(9000^3) = 3.05E+12 m^3
mass = 3.05e12 m^3 * 1000 kg/m^3 = 3.05e15 kg​

Thule:
volume = 4/3π(6500^3) = 1.15E+12 m^3
mass = 1.15e12 m^3 * 1000 kg/m^3 = 1.15e15 kg​

Step 3
Since the object is odd shaped, I broke the gravitational force into two parts:
Net gravitational force = the force from the near sphere + the force from the distant sphere.

Ultima point A
Acc_grav = G(3.05e15 kg)/((9000m)^2) + G(1.15e15 kg)((24500m)^2)
= 0.002516 + 0.000128
= 0.002644 m/s^2

Thule point B
Acc_grav = G(3.05e15 kg)/((22000m)^2) + G(1.15e15 kg)/((6500m)^2)
= 0.000421 + 0.001817
= 0.002238 m/s^2

Step 4
Find the accelerations due to rotation from the center of rotation, point C:
distance C to A: 13,200 m
distance C to B: 17,800 m

convert 15 hours into radians/sec
15*60*60 = 54,200 seconds/revolution
2π radians/revolution
ω = (2π rad/rev)/(54200 sec/rev) = 0.000116 radians/second

a = rω²
Ultima point A
Acc_centr = 13200m * ((0.000116/s)^2) = 0.000179 m/s^2

Thule point B
Acc_centrifugal = 17800m * ((000116/s)^2) = 0.000241 m/s^2

Step 5
Chose a sign convention: Force towards the asteroid is positive.

Step 6
Provide the answers
a.
Ultima point A
Net acc = 0.002644 m/s^2 - 0.000179 m/s^2
net acc = 0.0025 m/s^2

Thule point B
net acc = 0.002238 m/s^2 - 0.000241 m/s^2
net acc = 0.0020 m/s^2

b.
Ultima
ratio = 0.002644 m/s^2 / 0.000179 m/s^2 = 15

Thule

ratio = 0.002238 m/s^2 / 0.000241 m/s^2 = 9.3

ps. This is not real homework, so there is no answer in the back of the book. I normally wouldn't post such a trivial problem, but I've gotten indications from 2 different people that my answers may not be correct.
 

Attachments

  • 2019.01.06.pf.Ultima.Thule.hw.problem.png
    2019.01.06.pf.Ultima.Thule.hw.problem.png
    6.5 KB · Views: 587
Physics news on Phys.org
Looks good. The approach is fine and all numbers I checked are fine as well.

Quick cross-check: For a sphere with the density of Earth the critical rotation period (centrifugal force = gravity) would be 1.5 hours, the period of a low Earth orbit. 15 hours gives you a safety factor of 100. The density is a factor 5 lower here so our factor goes down to 20. The non-spherical shape removes mass, which makes the factor go down a bit more.
 
  • Like
Likes OmCheeto
I said your previous answers were not correct but the distances you are now using look good to me.
Seems I'd picked up a false idea about inv. sqr law near to a spherical object. The fact it is exact is quite neat.

Using the masses you calculate, the barycentre distance estimate is 4244km but I'm guessing that NASA have derived their value from observations.

BC_U = ( rT+rU ) * mT / (mT + mU) = 4244km
 
fizzy said:
I said your previous answers were not correct
I actually don't remember that.
but the distances you are now using look good to me.
That's strange, as all of the number changed, but the answers look consistent with the changes, so my guess is that my original calculations were also correct.

2019.01.07.ultima.thule.comparison.png


Seems I'd picked up a false idea about inv. sqr law near to a spherical object. The fact it is exact is quite neat.

Using the masses you calculate, the barycentre distance estimate is 4244km but I'm guessing that NASA have derived their value from observations.

BC_U = ( rT+rU ) * mT / (mT + mU) = 4244km

I've not seen a value posted by NASA. Like you, I calculated the center of mass from the given numbers.
Doh! I see I forgot that comparison.
Distance of center of mass to center of Ultima:
2nd attempt 4700m
hw attempt 4200m
difference: 12%​
 

Attachments

  • 2019.01.07.ultima.thule.comparison.png
    2019.01.07.ultima.thule.comparison.png
    6.2 KB · Views: 451
I multiplied the values first without the error limit. Got 19.38. rounded it off to 2 significant figures since the given data has 2 significant figures. So = 19. For error I used the above formula. It comes out about 1.48. Now my question is. Should I write the answer as 19±1.5 (rounding 1.48 to 2 significant figures) OR should I write it as 19±1. So in short, should the error have same number of significant figures as the mean value or should it have the same number of decimal places as...
Thread 'A cylinder connected to a hanging mass'
Let's declare that for the cylinder, mass = M = 10 kg Radius = R = 4 m For the wall and the floor, Friction coeff = ##\mu## = 0.5 For the hanging mass, mass = m = 11 kg First, we divide the force according to their respective plane (x and y thing, correct me if I'm wrong) and according to which, cylinder or the hanging mass, they're working on. Force on the hanging mass $$mg - T = ma$$ Force(Cylinder) on y $$N_f + f_w - Mg = 0$$ Force(Cylinder) on x $$T + f_f - N_w = Ma$$ There's also...
Back
Top