What are the physical and emotional challenges of aging?

[turbo]

Some are physical, and some are emotional. Two days ago, my neighbor ~70 years old had a stroke and was rushed to a stroke/coronary center in Bangor. Hopefully, they can do something to relieve the pressure on his brain, and he doesn't lose much functionality. My wife's favorite aunt (~93) is in that same hospital and is not expected to last for more than the next day or so. At least she didn't fall victim to senile dementia like her sister (my mother-in-law), and had a sharp mind and a good memory every time I talked to her. A good long life and a merciful (not drawn-out, painful) death are something we can all aspire to.

Until a year or two ago, I'd breeze right past the obituaries in the morning paper. Now, though, it seems that a couple of times a week people that I know have died, including the parents of friends, and even former class-mates. I'm a couple weeks away from hitting 60, so it's not that surprising that people in their 80s are kicking off, but still jarring to see an obit about somebody that you grew up knowing.

A guy that died recently has a big soft spot in my heart. He was fishing the tailwaters of the local hydro-dam and hooked into a huge salmon, and he told me to grab his landing net and land that monster. My father was horrified - even more so when I made the rookie mistake of grabbing the line when that big fish didn't want to get into the net! It all turned out OK, and that football-shaped land-locked salmon ended up mounted and displayed on the wall of the local variety store that sold fishing licenses in the next town. My father was giving me hell, and Junior patted me on the back and told me that I "did good".

 

[lisab]

Carpe diem! It all ends way, way too soon.

 

[DragonPetter]

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's aunt and neighbor.

I'm curious, what is more painful about getting old, seeing the people you've known fall apart from old age, which is inevitable, or seeing life go on without you and seeing young people doing and enjoying things that you won't be able to do or that you missed your chance to do?

Edit: Along the same lines, is it painful to know you won't be around when science discovers some of the greatest mysteries of today?

 

[turbo]

I think it was Jackson Browne that said that all we leave behind is the way we lived our lives.

 

[turbo]

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's aunt and neighbor.

I'm curious, what is more painful, seeing the people you've known fall apart from old age, which is inevitable, or seeing life go on without you and seeing young people doing and enjoying things that you won't be able to do or that you missed your chance to do?

I have worked on ski-patrols, raced in HS, done white-water kayaking and canoeing, technical rock climbing, orienteering, built hopped up Harleys, etc, etc. I don't feel that I have missed out on much. It's sad but inevitable to see older people that are dear to you dying off. I used to think that people who HAD to scan the obits were morbid. I see that differently now.

 

[turbo]

Along the same lines, is it painful to know you won't be around when science discovers some of the greatest mysteries of today?

Not really. I have some inclinations as to which way the quantum world and classical physics can be reconciled, but I'd probably be infracted for mentioning them here. Science will plod along (with occasional surges) as it always has, and it doesn't really matter if I'm around to see some serious progress toward a GUT. We all have our appointed times, and we can't aspire to more.

 

[DragonPetter]

Not really. I have some inclinations as to which way the quantum world and classical physics can be reconciled, but I'd probably be infracted for mentioning them here. Science will plod along (with occasional surges) as it always has, and it doesn't really matter if I'm around to see some serious progress toward a GUT. We all have our appointed times, and we can't aspire to more.

I'm a lot younger than you and I still get depressed that I missed the lifetime-extension/immortality boat that will probably be available to future generations.

 

[jim hardy]

But Turbo don't you find your insight getting better? And your patience with people?

When i turned forty i said to Mom "Life is starting to make more sense"
she replied "Wait'll seventy".

If we can take anything with us it's memories. I try to make mine kind ones.

 

[turbo]

If we can take anything with us it's memories. I try to make mine kind ones.

That's a good thing. If we die knowing that we have treated people kindly, and have tried to do good, that's good enough, IMO.

 

[rhody]

I have shared the same thoughts you stated more times than I care to admit, especially in the past five years, to that end, here is something I have been working on and will continue to work on until I leave this planet, keep your mind fresh with ideas, new challenges, and to seek out those who are a decade or two younger than you as part of your inner circle of friends and associates. If you don't, you stand to wake up one day with everyone who meant anything to you gone forever. Having younger friends helps from becoming depressed, and at some point alone. Stay connected and alive...

Rhody...

 

[drizzle]

Having a strong family bonds, cures most of life's cruelness.

 

[turbo]

Having a strong family bonds, cures most of life's cruelness.

True, but most of us need friends and people with similar interests to keep us alert. Family does not always do that. I hope that when I die, there are people who will at least say "he was a good person".

 

[I like Serena]

When my father died, that shook me and my brothers and mother.
It shows that life is not unending and makes one wonder.
In a sense it brought us all together.
I didn't use to have any experience with growing old and dying.

 

[Evo]

I guess my perspective is a bit different because people close to me started dying while I was in my early teens. Classmates, neighbors, best friend's parents, close family members, when I was 16 a boy that thought he was in love with me commited suicide over me. When I was 18 a co-worker that was a good friend and I had a crush on was murdered. Now most of my family and old friends are dead and in the distant past. Seems like my losses have been going on forever.

 

[chiro]

True, but most of us need friends and people with similar interests to keep us alert. Family does not always do that. I hope that when I die, there are people who will at least say "he was a good person".

I am pretty sure that at least on here at PF, despite most not having met you in person (like myself) would agree that you already deserve that honor.

 

[Astronuc]

It's not so much older, as living a long time. Inevitably one's mortality becomes more real and definite, especially when one loses friends and family members.

 

[turbo]

I don't really mind getting older (no choice, anyway), but there are losses all along the way. Some are more tolerable than others.

 

[OldEngr63]

The pains of getting older are very real, however. We don't feel nearly as energetic as we once did, we move a lot slower, we get tired a lot faster, and we just simply do not think as fast as we once did -- or at least I find all of these to be true for myself. Some mornings, it just aches to get out of bed, but it also aches to stay in bed (that's a lousy choice to face, let me tell you!). You get to the point where doctor's appointments become a major part of your social calendar which is a pretty dismal comment on your life.

 

[ThomasT]

Some are physical, and some are emotional. Two days ago, my neighbor ~70 years old had a stroke and was rushed to a stroke/coronary center in Bangor. Hopefully, they can do something to relieve the pressure on his brain, and he doesn't lose much functionality. My wife's favorite aunt (~93) is in that same hospital and is not expected to last for more than the next day or so. At least she didn't fall victim to senile dementia like her sister (my mother-in-law), and had a sharp mind and a good memory every time I talked to her. A good long life and a merciful (not drawn-out, painful) death are something we can all aspire to.

Until a year or two ago, I'd breeze right past the obituaries in the morning paper. Now, though, it seems that a couple of times a week people that I know have died, including the parents of friends, and even former class-mates. I'm a couple weeks away from hitting 60, so it's not that surprising that people in their 80s are kicking off, but still jarring to see an obit about somebody that you grew up knowing.

A guy that died recently has a big soft spot in my heart. He was fishing the tailwaters of the local hydro-dam and hooked into a huge salmon, and he told me to grab his landing net and land that monster. My father was horrified - even more so when I made the rookie mistake of grabbing the line when that big fish didn't want to get into the net! It all turned out OK, and that football-shaped land-locked salmon ended up mounted and displayed on the wall of the local variety store that sold fishing licenses in the next town. My father was giving me hell, and Junior patted me on the back and told me that I "did good".

I'm going on 65, so I can identify with your experience/sentiment. Have lost several pretty good friends who died way too young. Most of the family that I was close to is gone.

But we're still here. I'm glad you're still here. Always enjoy, and usually learn something from, your posts. I'm especially fascinated by your musical prowess and experiences, as well as your mode of living ... and cooking knowledge. And usually agree with your take on social/political/philosophical issues.

As for losses due to aging. Yeah, it can be frustrating. Not just the loss of loved and trusted ones, but the degradation of abilities. But one adjusts/adapts.

 

[Alesak]

It would be very interesting to read some insights from the elderly members of this forum. By this I mean for example things that are not obvious at the moment, but only in retrospect. Or things people wish they did when they were young, but didn´t do for whatever reason. Or focusing on things or people that weren´t really worth it. Or wasting too much time on something.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

It would be very interesting to read some insights from the elderly members of this forum.

Yes, I would be quite interested to hear from them.

 

[Astronuc]

It would be very interesting to read some insights from the elderly members of this forum. By this I mean for example things that are not obvious at the moment, but only in retrospect. Or things people wish they did when they were young, but didn´t do for whatever reason. Or focusing on things or people that weren´t really worth it. Or wasting too much time on something.

I wanted to go to mountains (Himalayas, Karakorum, Pamirs, Altai, . . .) when I was young. It would have been a lot safer then than now. However, I didn't have the money. Instead, I focused on school, getting into university, and then academics and then getting degrees. Along the way, I got married, and that really restricts what one can do. Of course, if I had married someone who was into mountaineering, that would have been a very different experience.

Looking back, there are certainly a lot of "what ifs". There have always been a lot of paths/roads from which to choose, and rather than the path/road not taken, there are many paths/roads not taken. Each would have been a very different experience/adventure/history.

Some paths would have been better not taken.

 

[drizzle]

...Or wasting too much time on something.

Don't waste a single minute on hatred.

Yes, I would be quite interested to hear from them.

I'd be glad to give you some insights.

 

[R.P.F.]

This thread makes me really sad.
A professor who I intensely adore is hitting 60 in a year or so. He is sharp, intelligent and nice. I see the air of competence around him wherever he goes. The interaction between us is great. We always have so much to talk about!
He really makes me think that some people just don't get old. Or even if they do, the charm doesn't fade at all.
All I want to say is that there are losses as you get old, but there are also young people coming along to befriend/admire you.

I'm 20, btw.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I'm trying my best to front load my life and go big every chance I get! Something I have been thinking about is how many times I've been close to death and not know it. I sure there are countless situations in everyone's life where if something changed slightly in an experience that it would have resulted in our death. It also makes me think about what decisions I've made or will make that might result in my death (falling dominos). It might be as simple as waiting on a particular yellow light or as complex as deciding not to meet a new person who unknowingly will direct you to your death.

 

[turbo]

Good news about my neighbor. The docs relieved the swelling that caused the stroke and he's on track to be released Monday.

And two of my sisters-in-law took my mother-in law to visit her rapidly-failing sister in the hospital for one last time.

 

[Alesak]

I wanted to go to mountains (Himalayas, Karakorum, Pamirs, Altai, . . .) when I was young. It would have been a lot safer then than now. However, I didn't have the money. Instead, I focused on school, getting into university, and then academics and then getting degrees. Along the way, I got married, and that really restricts what one can do. Of course, if I had married someone who was into mountaineering, that would have been a very different experience.

Yeah, my brother is 30 right now, and recently he went to Nepal for a month. I guess it was smart choice to do it before he gets married. OT, did you know about mountains in Slovakia? For example here and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatry. They are under 2000m, but definitely have that "great mountains" feeling about them, with winds and all that stuff. Been there, was awesome:) But I guess in the US you got such mountains too.

Looking back, there are certainly a lot of "what ifs". There have always been a lot of paths/roads from which to choose, and rather than the path/road not taken, there are many paths/roads not taken. Each would have been a very different experience/adventure/history.

Some paths would have been better not taken.

True that, but when I´m thinking about it, it seems to be better to be on the daring site. I´m 23, and already I can see all the opportunities I missed because of my inaction or lazyness. How sad.

 

[Alesak]

Yes, I would be quite interested to hear from them.

And vice versa!

 

[Alesak]

I'm trying my best to front load my life and go big every chance I get! Something I have been thinking about is how many times I've been close to death and not know it. I sure there are countless situations in everyone's life where if something changed slightly in an experience that it would have resulted in our death. It also makes me think about what decisions I've made or will make that might result in my death (falling dominos). It might be as simple as waiting on a particular yellow light or as complex as deciding not to meet a new person who unknowingly will direct you to your death.

Well, the closest I´ve been to death is probably when I was in competition with about a hundred million other contenders, which I won. All others died.

Otherwise, I think the chance to die prematurely in developed world is pretty low, look at the statistics. Or what do you mean?

 

[Hobin]

Otherwise, I think the chance to die prematurely in developed world is pretty low, look at the statistics. Or what do you mean?

'Prematurely' includes all cases NOT caused by biological degeneration (i.e. aging). That's a pretty big list of possible causes of death.

 

[Alesak]

'Prematurely' includes all cases NOT caused by biological degeneration (i.e. aging). That's a pretty big list of possible causes of death.

Healthy living seem to be much better strategy to avoiding death than to worry about being hit by a car or getting shot, in any case.

 

[Hobin]

Healthy living seem to be much better strategy to avoiding death than to worry about being hit by a car or getting shot, in any case.

Agreed. I was just nitpicking definitions.

 

[Astronuc]

Yeah, my brother is 30 right now, and recently he went to Nepal for a month. I guess it was smart choice to do it before he gets married. OT, did you know about mountains in Slovakia? For example here and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatry. They are under 2000m, but definitely have that "great mountains" feeling about them, with winds and all that stuff. Been there, was awesome:) But I guess in the US you got such mountains too.

Yes - I know of the European mountains, and those of E. Europe, particularly the Carpathians and Balkan ranges. I've spent time in Rhodopians. I hope to return.

True that, but when I´m thinking about it, it seems to be better to be on the daring site. I´m 23, and already I can see all the opportunities I missed because of my inaction or lazyness. How sad.

You have plenty of time.

 

[gentryliving]

That is really the pain of getting older. When mother died i didn't know what to do. Although i am old enough to take care of myself, but i had my worries. What if i am old and no one to take care of me? What if my children will not take care of me? A lot of questions but in the end, i know the creator has a plan for each of us.

 

[turbo]

Good news on one front. My older friend/neighbor is back home. He is on a maintenance dose of a clot-buster medicine, but not much else, and he doesn't seem to have lost much (if any) function. We spent almost an hour on the phone this morning and he seems in good spirits. In fact, he wants to get right back out to the garage and resume working on a 33 year old Ford pickup he is restoring, and wanted my advice about how to get wrinkles and creases out of a new molded carpet that he bought for the cab.

 

[Gnosis]

Good news on one front. My older friend/neighbor is back home. He is on a maintenance dose of a clot-buster medicine, but not much else, and he doesn't seem to have lost much (if any) function. We spent almost an hour on the phone this morning and he seems in good spirits. In fact, he wants to get right back out to the garage and resume working on a 33 year old Ford pickup he is restoring, and wanted my advice about how to get wrinkles and creases out of a new molded carpet that he bought for the cab.

That’s great news Turbo.

My neighbor’s sister passed away several months ago at age 42 however, she brought the reaper upon herself as she slept, as she was a chain smoking heroin junkie. Her brother and I forewarned her multiple times that she wouldn’t last all that much longer at her age if she continued in the manner that she had, but as her brother informed me, “Jennifer said she wanted to die because she thinks her life sucks.”

It is somewhat difficult for me to fathom anyone being so unappreciative of their lone opportunity to exist. There are countless matters to ponder, endless paths to explore, and joyful experiences yet awaiting each of us at various bends along destiny’s winding way.

Most of us at some point or another have been heavily burdened by loss and felt as though things just weren’t going to get better, but it seems that when we least expect it, they suddenly do and it makes us grateful that we managed to live through whatever tribulations to arrive at this joyful point where we find ourselves laughing once again and thinking, “It’s sure good to be alive, to witness another sunrise and sunset, to gaze into the depths of the star-filled heavens, and to ponder matters which intrigue us the most.”

My advice: Strive always for the joyful moments that await their moment of passage.

 

[turbo]

Every day brings something new, and it's a shame to fall into self-destruction when there is more life to be experienced.

My wife and I have a small, easily-maintainable home, a great garden-spot (after years of building up the soil) and some very nice neighbors and friends. Some people don't have any of that. After losing some functionality to a medicine-induced brain-stem stroke over a decade ago, I could have gotten down on my life. I've tried to reject the negativism and keep charging (plodding?) ahead. Got to keep on keeping on...

 

[Gnosis]

Every day brings something new, and it's a shame to fall into self-destruction when there is more life to be experienced.

My wife and I have a small, easily-maintainable home, a great garden-spot (after years of building up the soil) and some very nice neighbors and friends. Some people don't have any of that. After losing some functionality to a medicine-induced brain-stem stroke over a decade ago, I could have gotten down on my life. I've tried to reject the negativism and keep charging (plodding?) ahead. Got to keep on keeping on...

Turbo, do you still have the same loss of functionality? Has it improved to some degree?

 

[turbo]

Turbo, do you still have the same loss of functionality? Has it improved to some degree?

No improvement. I have very limited sensation of temperature in my right leg and a constant sensation of burning in that foot, and I have lost almost all joint-position feedback in in my left leg, which makes it very difficult to walk on uneven surfaces, even more so after dark when it's tough to anticipate the effects of changing topography/surfaces. At least I didn't lose critical (to me) sensory inputs like vision, hearing, etc. Those nerve locuses were not far away.

 

[Ouabache]

As I listened to Alphonso D'Abruzzo the other day on radio (who?). You know, the fellow who played
Benjamin (Hawkeye) Pierce on M.A.S.H. I was inspired by his enthusiasm for life and new projects.
As a visiting professor at Stoneybrook University, he is teaching grad courses in science communication
So i was wondering, how old was he during the M.A.S.H. years? (35-45). And how old when he hosted
Scientific American Frontiers, (57-69). How old is Alan today? 76

He is one of the great role models, when I think about growing older.

 

[alt]

THANATOPSIS

http://www.poetry-archive.com/b/thanatopsis.html

Good stuff !

 

[Negatron]

I consider myself more on the activist side of aging.

When I reach the point where age has produced a large impact on my quality of life and there are no prospects for improvement, I would not sit around and wait for the inevitable. I would happily end it with little hesitation.

 

[Office_Shredder]

When I reach the point where age has produced a large impact on my quality of life and there are no prospects for improvement, I would not sit around and wait for the inevitable. I would happily end it with little hesitation.

Easier said than done

 

[Negatron]

For some perhaps. I fear the pain of living and dying but I don't fear death. When the time comes that death becomes the more favorable option I can't imagine what difficulties I could possibly stumble upon. Even at the age of 27 I have no major objections to being dead; At the same time I have no reason for it but should one present itself, cancer for example, I have no doubt that I would take the matter into my own hands.

Perhaps taking one's own life is not a plausible option for many people, especially with modern religious values, but I consider it very privileged and empowering to have the state of mind to give oneself that choice.

I can live my life without concern of being old, as I have the choice not to be. When I realized that I'm readily willing to make that decision I became much more comfortable with getting older, gives me a certain feeling of control of my own fate that I previously believed was out of my hands.

 

[Office_Shredder]

When the time comes that death becomes the more favorable option I can't imagine what difficulties I could possibly stumble upon.

If you think that death is the favorable option then you're going to do it, the question is are you ever going to think that death is the favorable option?

I can live my life without concern of being old, as I have the choice not to be. When I realized that I'm readily willing to make that decision I became much more comfortable with getting older, gives me a certain feeling of control of my own fate that I previously believed was out of my hands.

Most people are concerned about getting old because they want to keep living like they're young. The fact that you plan on killing yourself instead doesn't change the fact that you aren't going to be young anymore, so I don't see how you're more liberated. Just more short lived. You might be the only person who thinks to themselves "Oh man, when I'm sixty I'm going to be OLD, and ALIVE, and there's nothing I can do to stop both of those occurring at the same time. Wait! I have an idea!" The general ordering that people have is dead<old<young. You seem to have taken old<young and concluded that old<dead

There's nothing noble or radical or freeing about what you're saying, it's just kind of dumb because your definition of 'large impact on quality of life' is going to keep shifting until something kills you anyway

 

[Negatron]

I'm not "planning" on killing myself, I might very well find life as an old man satisfactory. I'm only leaving it as an available option that I would readily execute should I find myself in the position of being old and unsatisfied. Although ultimately the whole concept goes beyond growing old and having this be an open possibility at any point in my life when it has become apparent that I have lost all prospects at happiness.

Nothing noble perhaps, but it's very freeing to be able to independently choose to end one's suffering should it eventually present itself.

 

[turbo]

As you get older, personal entanglements grow. The prospect of suicide will have to be accompanied by the realization that your "significant other", close friends, and surviving relatives will be impacted - probably quite negatively.

If you have an untreatable terminal cancer and will live your remaining days in pain, that's something for your loved ones to use to rationalize your death, but being "old and unsatisfied"? They would take little solace in that rationale.

 

[lisab]

As you get older, personal entanglements grow. The prospect of suicide will have to be accompanied by the realization that your "significant other", close friends, and surviving relatives will be impacted - probably quite negatively.

If you have an untreatable terminal cancer and will live your remaining days in pain, that's something for your loved ones to use to rationalize your death, but being "old and unsatisfied"? They would take little solace in that rationale.

IMO: anyone who has kids, and is considering suicide because they feel "old and unsatisfied", is simply unsuited to be a parent.

 

[Negatron]

being "old and unsatisfied"? They would take little solace in that rationale.

Being unsatisfied is a gradient. From what I've seen of people 80+, many of them look forward to death. At some point in one's life the mere goal of not pissing oneself becomes a serious challenge. Any person who takes solace through insisting that the elderly endure a degenerate life against their wishes doesn't deserve anything other than being negatively impacted when that elderly person chooses, with all proper consideration, to end their life.

 

[hypatia]

Some are physical, and some are emotional. Two days ago, my neighbor ~70 years old had a stroke and was rushed to a stroke/coronary center in Bangor. Hopefully, they can do something to relieve the pressure on his brain, and he doesn't lose much functionality. My wife's favorite aunt (~93) is in that same hospital and is not expected to last for more than the next day or so. At least she didn't fall victim to senile dementia like her sister (my mother-in-law), and had a sharp mind and a good memory every time I talked to her. A good long life and a merciful (not drawn-out, painful) death are something we can all aspire to.

Until a year or two ago, I'd breeze right past the obituaries in the morning paper. Now, though, it seems that a couple of times a week people that I know have died, including the parents of friends, and even former class-mates. I'm a couple weeks away from hitting 60, so it's not that surprising that people in their 80s are kicking off, but still jarring to see an obit about somebody that you grew up knowing.

A guy that died recently has a big soft spot in my heart. He was fishing the tailwaters of the local hydro-dam and hooked into a huge salmon, and he told me to grab his landing net and land that monster. My father was horrified - even more so when I made the rookie mistake of grabbing the line when that big fish didn't want to get into the net! It all turned out OK, and that football-shaped land-locked salmon ended up mounted and displayed on the wall of the local variety store that sold fishing licenses in the next town. My father was giving me hell, and Junior patted me on the back and told me that I "did good".

It is not that life is so short, its just that death is so long.