What Causes Electric and Color Charge in Fundamental Particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature and origin of electric and color charge in fundamental particles, exploring theoretical concepts and specific examples such as electrons and neutrinos. Participants express interest in both the conceptual understanding and potential references for further reading.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that charge may not be a "real" entity, but rather a property related to susceptibility to forces, specifically mentioning that electrons have charge while neutrons do not.
  • One participant notes that in quantum field theory, charge is a quantum number associated with interaction strength and conservation laws, with some charges being conserved and others related to broken symmetries.
  • Another participant expresses interest in quasiparticles, specifically holons, and questions their relevance to the discussion of charge.
  • There is a debate about whether quasiparticles like holons are merely bookkeeping constructs, with some participants expressing confusion about their significance in relation to charge.
  • One participant seeks clarification on how charge can be considered an intrinsic property when some fundamental particles, like neutrinos, do not exhibit it.
  • There is a request for references or papers that discuss the nature of charge, both electric and color charge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of charge or the significance of quasiparticles. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the intrinsic nature of charge and its relation to fundamental particles.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect uncertainty about the definitions and implications of charge and quasiparticles, with participants expressing varying levels of familiarity with the concepts discussed.

BiGyElLoWhAt
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I've heard people saying things like charge isn't real, but the suceptibility to a force is definitely real. Whatever charge actually is, or rather, what causes it, we know that electrons have it and neutrons don't. Any references to papers or web pages or anything on this?

Thanks.

P.s. Electric charge, or color charge. preferably both =]
 
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What kind of answer would you find satisfying? And in what context are you interested in?

In quantum field theory context: Charge is a quantum number. It is related to things like interaction strength, conservation laws, and such. Some kinds of charge are conserved (electric charge for example) and are related to symmetries (the gauge symmetry of QED for electric charge). Some kinds of charge are not conserved, and are related to broken symmetries (week charge and the broken SU(2) symmetry of electro-weak theory).
 
I'm less looking for the book keeping, and more in the context of what I actually just pulled up on google searching for unrelated things: the Holon. What is known about these quasiparticles? I've never seen these referenced before about 5 minutes ago.
 
BiGyElLoWhAt said:
I'm less looking for the book keeping, and more in the context of what I actually just pulled up on google searching for unrelated things: the Holon. What is known about these quasiparticles? I've never seen these referenced before about 5 minutes ago.

Well, yes. We of course knew exactly what you wanted. Sigh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holon_(physics)
 
Sorry my last post got deleted for speaking speculatively. Trying to avoid that. I appreciate the link, but wikipedia is normally the first place I go, and was when I first found the term holon.

When I created this thread earlier, I wasn't sure exactly what I was looking for, so apologies for not being clearer.
 
BiGyElLoWhAt said:
I'm less looking for the book keeping, and more in the context of what I actually just pulled up on google searching for unrelated things: the Holon. What is known about these quasiparticles?
Hmm, this seems self contradictory. Quasiparticles are just bookkeeping, so I don't see how you would be interested in them if you are not looking for book keeping.
 
Are they? I"m not familiar with quasiparticles
 
BiGyElLoWhAt said:
When I created this thread earlier, I wasn't sure exactly what I was looking for, so apologies for not being clearer.

I'm still not sure what your question is.
 
BiGyElLoWhAt said:
I've heard people saying things like charge isn't real, but the suceptibility to a force is definitely real. Whatever charge actually is, or rather, what causes it, we know that electrons have it and neutrons don't. Any references to papers or web pages or anything on this?

Thanks.

P.s. Electric charge, or color charge. preferably both =]

My understanding is that charge is simply an intrinsic property of subatomic particles, and there's really little more to it than that. Whether that's bookkeeping or not, I don't know.
 
  • #10
Vanadium 50 said:
I'm still not sure what your question is.
Well take leptons for instance, specifically (as an example) electrons and neutrinos. Both considered fundamental, yet one contains this property, and another doesn't. How can charge be an intrinsic property if some "objects" or "things" display the property, while others don't? Is there anything on this? I found holon's, but apparently they're akin to virtual particles or something similar?

I'm curious as to whether or not there's a mechanism under which matter acquires this so called property "charge".
 

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