What conditions guarantee convergence of Newton's method for approximating pi/2?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions necessary for the convergence of Newton's method when approximating $\frac{\pi}{2}$ using the function $f(x)=\cos(x)$. Participants explore the implications of different starting values and their effects on the convergence of the iterative process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that starting at a point $x_0$ where $0 < x_0 < \frac{\pi}{2}$ leads to the first iteration $x_1$ being greater than $\frac{\pi}{2}$, raising questions about the conditions for convergence.
  • There is a discussion about whether $x_1$ being closer to $\frac{\pi}{2}$ than $x_0$ is sufficient for convergence.
  • Geometric reasoning is presented, indicating that the tangent line's intersection with the x-axis results in $x_1$ being on the right side of $\frac{\pi}{2}$ due to the decreasing slope of $\cos(x)$ in the interval.
  • Participants analyze the error terms in the iterations, with some expressing uncertainty about the implications of negative error values and their relationship to convergence.
  • There is a proposal to find the boundary of starting values that guarantee convergence, with some suggesting that a larger starting value (still less than $\frac{\pi}{2}$) may ensure convergence.
  • Concerns are raised about the necessity for the error to remain the same after the first iteration and its implications for identifying critical starting values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for convergence, with no consensus reached on the specific starting values or the implications of the error terms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise conditions that guarantee convergence.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the behavior of the function $f(x)=\cos(x)$ and the properties of Newton's method, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of convergence and the role of the error terms in the iterative process.

mathmari
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Hey! 😊

I have calculated an approximation to $\frac{\pi}{2}$ using Newton's method on $f(x)=\cos (x)$ with starting value $1$. After 2 iterations we get $1,5707$.
Which conditions does the starting point has to satisfy so that the convergence of the sequence of the Newton iterations to $\frac{\pi}{2}$ is guaranteed? :unsure:
 
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Suppose we start at a point $x_0$ with $0<x_0<\frac\pi 2$. Then the first iteration $x_1$ will be greater than $\frac\pi 2$.
We need that $x_1$ is closer to $\frac\pi 2$ than $x_0$. And if it is, it will be convergent, won't it? 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Suppose we start at a point $x_0$ with $0<x_0<\frac\pi 2$. Then the first iteration $x_1$ will be greater than $\frac\pi 2$.

Why will $x_1$ be greater than $\frac\pi 2$ ? :unsure:
Klaas van Aarsen said:
We need that $x_1$ is closer to $\frac\pi 2$ than $x_0$. And if it is, it will be convergent, won't it? 🤔

We need that because that would mean that the sequence $(x_i)$ converges to $\frac{\pi}{2}$, or not? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
Why will $x_1$ be greater than $\frac\pi 2$ ?

Geometrically, the method takes the intersection of the tangent line with the x-axis.
Since $\cos$ has a decreasing slope on $(0,\frac\pi 2)$, that intersection point must be on the other side of $\frac\pi 2$. 🤔

Alternatively, we can look at it algebraically.
wiki explains that we can write the successive errors as:
$$\varepsilon_{n+1} = \frac {- f'' (\xi_n)}{2 f'(x_n)} \cdot {\varepsilon_n}^2$$
where $x_n$ are the successive approximations of a root $a$, $\varepsilon_n=a-x_n$ is the error in that approximation, and $\xi_n$ is a point between $x_n$ and the root $a$.

So if $\varepsilon_1$ is negative, we have that $x_1$ is on the right side of the root. Can we deduce that? 🤔

We need that because that would mean that the sequence $(x_i)$ converges to $\frac{\pi}{2}$, or not?
We're trying to find which starting value we need so that the sequence converges.
We get that if the remaining error converges to zero, don't we? 🤔
 
Last edited:
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Alternatively, we can look at it algebraically.
wiki explains that we can write the succesive errors as:
$$\varepsilon_{n+1} = \frac {- f'' (\xi_n)}{2 f'(x_n)} \cdot {\varepsilon_n}^2$$
where $x_n$ are the successive approximations of a root $a$, $\varepsilon_n=a-x_n$ is the error in that approximation, and $\xi_n$ is a point between $x_n$ and the root $a$.

So if $\varepsilon_1$ is negative, we have that $x_1$ is on the right side of the root. Can we deduce that? 🤔

We have that
$$\varepsilon_{1} = \frac {- f'' (\xi_0)}{2 f'(x_0)} \cdot {\varepsilon_0}^2= \frac {\cos (\xi_0)}{-2 \sin (1)} \cdot \left (\frac{\pi}{2}-1\right )^2 \approx \frac {\cos (\xi_0)}{-1.6829} \cdot 0.3258 = -0.1936 \cdot \cos (\xi_0)$$
So it is negative when $ \cos (\xi_0)$ is positive, right? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
We have that
$$\varepsilon_{1} = \frac {- f'' (\xi_0)}{2 f'(x_0)} \cdot {\varepsilon_0}^2= \frac {\cos (\xi_0)}{-2 \sin (1)} \cdot \left (\frac{\pi}{2}-1\right )^2 \approx \frac {\cos (\xi_0)}{-1.6829} \cdot 0.3258 = -0.1936 \cdot \cos (\xi_0)$$
So it is negative when $ \cos (\xi_0)$ is positive, right?
You have picked $x_0=1$ in which case $\xi_0$ must be between $1$ and $\frac\pi 2$. So for each possible value of $\xi_0$ we have indeed that $\cos (\xi_0)$ is positive.
But aren't we trying the find the $x_0$ that is 'just' sufficient to get convergence?
We have already found that for $x_0=1$ we get convergence. So the $x_0$ that we are trying to find should be smaller, shouldn't it? 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
You have picked $x_0=1$ in which case $\xi_0$ must be between $1$ and $\frac\pi 2$. So for each possible value of $\xi_0$ we have indeed that $\cos (\xi_0)$ is positive.
But aren't we trying the find the $x_0$ that is 'just' sufficient to get convergence?
We have already found that for $x_0=1$ we get convergence. So the $x_0$ that we are trying to find should be smaller, shouldn't it? 🤔

So we want to find the boundary ofall possible $x_0$'s to get convergence, right?

Do we have to use for that the formula for the remaining error?

:unsure:
 
That's how I interpret the OP.

The formula is for the general case. In our case it should suffice if we solve for the case that after the first iteration we have the same error. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The formula is for the general case. In our case it should suffice if we solve for the case that after the first iteration we have the same error. 🤔

I got stuck right now.Why does the error have to be the same as the previous error? :unsure:
 
  • #10
mathmari said:
I got stuck right now.Why does the error have to be the same as the previous error?
Then we should have the critical initial starting value.
A bigger starting value (that is less than $\frac\pi 2$) should guarantee convergence shouldn't it? 🤔
 
  • #11
Klaas van Aarsen said:
A bigger starting value (that is less than $\frac\pi 2$) should guarantee convergence shouldn't it? 🤔

Yes. The nearer the starting value is to $\frac{\pi}{2}$ the faster it converges, right? :unsure:
 

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