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What do you know about twins?

  1. Jun 10, 2003 #1
    I am not a twin myself, but I am doing some research on MZ and DZ twins?

    I am not really interested in the Nature vs. Nuture discussion that often accompanies this subject, but more on the strong similarities twins have and the theory that some are even empathically or psychically connected. I am especially interested in mirror twins and their similarities/ differences.

    I have come accross some interesting info during my mediocre research, but would like to start this thread off on what any respondants stance is on how connected twins seem to be.

    Any opinions?
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 10, 2003 #2
    My response may generate exactly the Nature vs. Nurture debate that you (and I) don't want. However, my opinion on the matter is that, if someone's genetic structure is exactly the same as someone else's, and their experiences are even somewhat similar, they will be very much like each other. They will think, act, and feel alike. This makes it exceptionally likely that the two will think of the same thing at the same time, on numerous occasions.

    Also, while this may cause the illusion of psychic connection, I don't see why a psychic connection should be any more likely to exist between twins than any other individuals (as, if telepaths actually exist, they should be able to read minds indiscriminately (unless somehow externally limited)).
  4. Jun 10, 2003 #3
    I wish to amend my previous response. I missed one thing: My reasoning only holds true if the twins' genes are not set to make them wish (strongly) to be differentiated, or to be viewed as an important individual. In this case, the children would probably try very hard to be different from each other (even if subconsciously), though I believe they would still think much alike.
  5. Jun 10, 2003 #4
    Very perceptive Mentat.

    Actually according to the research I've seen, twins who are raised together are more likely to try and act differently to create their own identity. This is referred to as "twinning".

    Interestingly enough though, despite the "twinning" effect, twins still show a strong resemblance in their mannerisms such as walking stride, hand movements, facial expressions, laughter, etc. "Twinning" only seems to create differences in outlook such as views on politics, religion, family lifestyle, etc. and interests in terms of career and hobbies also may be affected by "twinning".

    Of course there are twins who also try to be alike in everyway.

    But back to the subject of connectedness. There have been incidents in which MZ twins seem to know when their partner suffers from an injury or emotional trauma even when they are separated from each other. Of course this is not the norm, but certainly a very interesting fact. Of course the same type of incidents have been reported between mothers and their children as well.

    Out of curiosity, are there any twins who post here at physicsforums.com.
  6. Jun 11, 2003 #5
    Yeah, I've heard such reports, but it's as you said:

    You see, I've had the same kind of experiences (at least once) with practically every one of my family members I know. It's probably just coincidence(?).

    Well, I'm not. But it would be interesting if we found that there were twins - both posting on the PFs.
  7. Jun 13, 2003 #6
    There are connection for twins born in the same timeframe. For instance, I have 2 brothers and two sisters, we are born of the same parents, but our Birth times vary, different years.

    In twins that are born near the same moment of time, they show correlated emotional and 'phsycic' connectivity. Twins share their moment of conception inside the womb, they experience 'time'as one, every event is experienced together. Now at birth, they are identical in their genetic and enviromental make-up.

    Now there are some interesting theories that seem to relate to the connection of experience and consciousness and Time? Example, my sister and I have similar identities that make us visually alike, this comes from our parents(our parents are dis-similar in they have 10yrs age difference between them), and because of our Time of birth, there is 1 and 1/2 yrs between us. Now if we were born at a closer proximity in time, then our visual identity will converge to this moment, and we will be visual identical.

    Even though our parent pass on the same genetic material, to myself and sister, the differing factor is Time itself.

    The Timeframe is what causes visual identities, think of it as sharing the same Timecone and Time Horizon, consciousness relates to Humans and Time.

    Now in the animal world, there are a number of multiple births that occur for different species, but if you take the fish, say guppy, then at birth they are identical, born from eggs that susspend each guppy in their own timeframe capsule. At birth they are all identical, they have instinct whereas Humans Have consciousness.

    The affinity between Time and Consciosness seems to be extended into the Human Twins over a distance, as you say there has been numerous cases of shared 'out of sight, but not out of mind' experiences.

    It is thought that if a set of twins, meet another set of twins, and they all copulate the same time, then the children born will be 'super psychic' and will show signs of mental affinity far greater than usual twins.

    It is Time and the moment of Time that is paramount in all of Twins experiences.
  8. Jun 13, 2003 #7
    Interesting enough, however I must ask you, are implying that if I was born on March 3, of 1986 (exactly a year after my brother), then I would be just like him - and be psycically connected to him?
  9. Jun 13, 2003 #8
    Ranyart this is an interesting theory which could be plausible enough in mind to exist. But even within this theory time of birth would not be enough to create two identical children. In fact exact time of conception/ fertilization wouldn't do that either.

    If I understand your theory correctly, you are suggesting that genetic code is based on difference of time. Afterall a parent's production of reproductive genes may differ from age 20 vs. age 30. However, eggs and sperms are continually being produced by each parent and the time difference that each of these elements are produced is enough to change a child's appearance even according to your theory.

    Take the difference between MZ twins (identical made from the same fertilized egg) and DZ twins (fraternal made from 2 separate fertilized eggs) for instance. For the most part both sets of twins are born at relatively the same amount of time apart. Fraternal twins made from two separate fertilize eggs never appear the same physically and in research studies do not share any similarities in terms of mannerisms, facial expressions, etc. that I've described in a previous post to have been prominent among MZ twins.

    Although I like the Time Cone/ Time Horizon theory to reflect consciousness, the statistical chances of even two sets sperms created only seconds apart fertilizing two sets of eggs created only seconds apart are virtually nil in my opinion. Maybe in time this may actually be done with science intervening, however, I for one am not that curious to exactly have it done just to find out.

    If I misunderstood your theory, please correct me.
  10. Jun 13, 2003 #9
    This is interesting. It is quite common that identical twins will marry another set of identical twins. This has been recorded many times and since there have been Annual Twin Conventions, the proliferation of this phenomenon seemed to have been increased over the years. I do not know of any study trying to gauge when children of these twins are born and if they are born in close proximity of time. Of course the possibility is high if twins decide to try and time this to occur at the same time in my opinion -- just based on the fact the reproductive cycles of twins seem to correlate as proven in the menstrual cycles of female twins.

    It should be noted, however, that it is rare for a MZ twin to conceive MZ twins themselves. Normally the twin phenomenon seems to skip a generation or two.
  11. Jun 13, 2003 #10
    Not quite, if you are born form the same genetic pool(parents), and were concieved in a close proximity inside the womb, then if your brother or sister, shared this near proximity in time, then you would be more identical, your Time convergence would mean you be more identical.

    Any brother and sister born of the same parents, share the same genetic make-up 100%, its the time factor which introduces slight changes, visual identity being the most prolific, the less difference in the time-horizon, the more identical you become.

    Think of this, every moment is an event, the closer you both are to this moment the 'Timecone', then Identities are visually, as well as emotionally timestamped, or Entangled if you want to be specific!

    Now think of Quantum Entanglement, Photons are 'birthed' and separated via mirrors, but the Time-cone is never severed, thus what ever one photon experiences, the other also registers!
  12. Jun 13, 2003 #11
    Its about the affinity of two events(twins)have which is converged, either in one egg, or one womb. This is born out by the fact that, for myself and sister, we share the same information for genes, but my sister was born one and half years before me, time has progressed forward, even though I passed through the same womb much later.

    If we both passed through the womb of our mother at the same moment, then our Timecones would be Entangled, and thus although the information in our minds would appear at different locations (say I was in California, and my sister was in London), our consciosness and sub-conciosness would still feel an affinity, it turns out to be a form of Phsycic Entanglement.

    See my reply to Mentat, I also agree with your thoughts on Genetic Manipulations.
  13. Nov 11, 2003 #12
    Identical Twin

    First time logon: I am an identical twin & I've been looking up the quantum theory/entanglement as it relates to twins. I'm definitely not a rocket scientist so most of it is fairly complex & difficult to understand. Any basic info. anyone would like to share on the subject or any questions for me?
  14. Nov 11, 2003 #13


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    I would say quantum entanglement has nothing to do with human twinning.

    There are all these levels in between. Entanglement only happens at the particle level, already with atoms the decoherence effects prevent it. And then the atoms are combined into molecules and the molecules in a dividing cell (DNA and proteins) are huge, with thousands of atoms in them. Furthermore the interior of a cell is at an elevated temperature, relative to particle interactions, which are usually calculated at or close to absolute zero. So everything is jiggling around madly, which measns decoherence - the collapsing of wave functions by interacting with the environment, is dominating everything. So it looks like a no-go to me.
  15. Nov 11, 2003 #14


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    The best I can think of if the so-called "Twins Paradox" in GR... though I am pretty certain Einstein didn't intend for it to be carried out in reality... :wink:
  16. Nov 11, 2003 #15


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    I was just shown a story that physicists at the KEK accelerator had done an entanglement experiment with B-mesons, with excellent positive results. But I still stand by my former opinion.
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