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What is beyond knowledge ?

  1. Dec 9, 2003 #1
    The bible verses above ask us To Know something Beyond Knowledge.
    My question is, if it is really beyond knowledge, how can i know it?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 9, 2003 #2
    Hi Saint,

    it seems you finally found something the Bible fans can't answer :smile:
     
  4. Dec 9, 2003 #3
    I am not coming from a Christian perspective.
    I am no Bible thumper.
    In fact, I am about as far from a Christian as you can be.

    But these verses do not refer to knowing something beyond knowledge.
    It is saying that Christ's love surpasses knowledge.
    It is a prayer for you to understand in your heart and soul that the love that Jesus offers you is so much more important than any mental knowledge that you can gain through learning and reason.
    It is offering a wish that your mind will allow your heart to accept the love of Jesus even though your mind may not understand how or why the compassion and pure love he embodies is possible because he works within your soul, which is more important and potent than your mind could ever be capable of.

    Disgusting! *shivers*
    I sound like a preacher!
    I need to go take a shower now.

    I am not saying I agree with the passage, but I think you misinterpreted what was being said.
     
  5. Dec 9, 2003 #4
    Pretty good interpretation.
    I assume what the bible says is, the Love of Christ is Unbelieveable.
     
  6. Dec 9, 2003 #5
    Back to the philosophical question, how can we say something is beyond knowledge ?
     
  7. Dec 9, 2003 #6
    Great summation!

    I guess that would depend on how you define "beyond knowledge".
    Do you mean more important than knowledge?
    More reliable?
    Of greater intrinsic value?
    something else?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2003
  8. Dec 9, 2003 #7
    well, when you say beyond physics what do you mean is something that can't be described by physics. So I suppose beyond knowledge simply means something that can't be known.
     
  9. Dec 9, 2003 #8
    We can say it the same way we say anything else, but it lacks meaning (as you've probably surmised by now). It doesn't make sense to say that something is beyond knowledge, though it may be beyond knowing.

    The difference is that "knowing" can refer to full comprehension of a topic, while "knowledge" of something can refer to knowing that this "thing" even exists ITFP.
     
  10. Dec 9, 2003 #9
    My ability to stand on two legs is beyond knowledge. I don't know how to do it, and I can't teach others how to do it. If I suddenly lose it, I don't know how to regain it. Yet if I say I don't know how to walk, people will find it strange.

    There clearly is something beyond knowledge; it may be called doing, or experiencing.
     
  11. Dec 9, 2003 #10
    Maybe its an issue of perspective?

    La la la la la la la, oh my what a wonderful world this is.
    This is just an opinion, but could it be the case, that the term "knoweledge" generally means an actual understanding of something? Hence, when it says "surpasses knowledge," all that it is saying is that your mind couldnt possibly even begin to to truly understand that which is of a Divine nature. Hence, it is beyond your range of knowledge, for it is of a realm that you are ill-equipted for. Think about it logically: You cant comprehend the fact that you exist, but yet, you have existance. You dont understand the very idea of gravity, or the overall systme of the Universe, but its there, even thought it is beyond your little minds.
     
  12. Dec 9, 2003 #11
    Oh the love of English.

    So, anyone here into like English one o one?

    Knowledge refers to the contents of ones knowing. Knowing refer to the state of cognition. He knows, or he will know, are all different states of intellectual developement. when one knows, one has knowledge. when they dont know, they are ignorant. Hence, for something to be beyond knowledge means that as it stands, there is something that could be known, but isnt known as of yet. Hence, over, and beyond, your actual level/range of knowing, there is the pieces of knowledge that you could know, but you dont know.

    Knowledge, also implies the state of actual recognition, or understanding. And since you can compete with GOD, it is absurd to think that there will not always be things beyond you, beyond your atomic measures of knowledge.
     
  13. Dec 10, 2003 #12
    Re: Oh the love of English.

    Not always. "Knowledge" can be used to refer to comprehension as well. In fact, it is rather common to hear someone to be speaking of something that he knows someone else has great comprehension of and say "you know it, don't you?".

    No it doesn't. "Knowing" refers to a filing away of information gathered from cognition. The state of cognition is called consciousness.
     
  14. Dec 11, 2003 #13
    gggggggggrrrrrrrrr



    You cant possibly be serious?

    Clearly, you failed to understand what i wrote. If someone "comprehense," doesnt it follow that there is something to have comprehension of? Well, if so, then what could one possibly have "comprehension" of-----if not of something that they must already have some cognition of? Well if so, then how do you term the relationship between a person who has no comprehension of something, and someone who does? What, that one of the 2 people knows something that the other does not? Ok, so what is knowing?

    My primary claim still remains unshakened: Knowledge is the contents of ones knowing. Period.

    Lets take a few analogies:

    You are a teacher of a Kindergarden class. You teach simple things like the alphabet. From your teaching experiences, you know that some of your studants can actually recite their alphabet from A to Z. And you also know that some studants, can recite some of the alphabet, but not all the way to Z. Some child might actually in fact, be able to go as far as only the letter M.

    Now, can we say that the child who can only go as far as M, is the same as the child who can go from A to Z without a problem?

    From this perspective then, we can infer that there is a difference in having an idea of something, and being able to actually know something.

    For the child that can demonstrate to the instructor their knowledge of the alphabet can clearly be justified in the recieving the charge, that "He knows his alphabet." But can we say the same thing to the child who can not go past the letter M, that "she knows the alphabet"?

    Clearly, from this very simply analogy we can see that theres a difference between having the gist of something, and knowing something.

    To have knowledge then, means to know what you could know. But what is the opposite of not having knowledge? Could be ignorance?
    Now, you are just being silly.

    If you are not cognising, does it mean that you have knowledge about something that you cant possibly have cognition of?

    To cognise means to be aware of something. One could say that to be aware of something relates very closely to having knowledge of something, since you are having some kind of awareness about something.

    Here, you might find this site a bit useful:

    www.dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cognition

    Or,

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cognition
     
  15. Dec 11, 2003 #14
    A big YES!!! that is the concept of immortality. The LOve that surpasses knowledge that was being mention there is the immortal love
    or unconditional love or the AGAPE.

    The concept of Immortality is very hard to attain, you can know it by looking things around you and even you. Even you believe in the theory of evolution there still raise a question---who creates evolution? The very answer to this question is that there is a creator who owns the knowledge that never known to any genious under the sun.He is the immortal one!
     
  16. Dec 11, 2003 #15
    to me, to go beyond knowledge was to 'have faith'.

    you can not know or prove a greater reality, but we know (have faith) that we exist simultaneously in many dementions. we romanticize (and institutionalize) christ's words and lessons. let's just accept their very basic simple meaning. afterall, the acutal words may have even been embellished when being transcribed.

    dassit!
     
  17. Dec 11, 2003 #16
    The essence of God is Love, of which knowledge can only infer.
     
  18. Dec 12, 2003 #17
    Re: Re: What is beyond knowledge ?

    How do you know that? :wink:
     
  19. Dec 12, 2003 #18
    You cant. The bible is a comic book w/o pictures. How can superman fly? In reality, he cant. Its just a story
     
  20. Dec 13, 2003 #19
    Beyond knowledge to me(and if this has already been stated, apologies) neans beyond man's ability to comprehend. It doesn't necessarily mean beyond any possibility of knowing, just not at our level. So at some higher level of existence, it may be possible to comprehend, but not on our level of awareness.

    Of course this is all coming from an agnostic, so the very question itsself is flaw IMHO.
     
  21. Dec 13, 2003 #20
    An agnostic can form opinions?
     
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