What is the Degree of Order in Parallel Lines?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "degree of order" as it pertains to parallel lines, exploring whether a greater number of lines in the same direction signifies a higher degree of order. The conversation touches on theoretical implications, potential connections to thermodynamics and entropy, and examples from both physical and mathematical perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that having 100 lines in the same direction does represent a higher degree of order than 10 lines, suggesting that more energy is required to arrange the greater number of lines.
  • Others question the clarity of what is meant by "higher degree of order," suggesting that the term could have specific meanings in different contexts, such as field theory or thermodynamics.
  • A participant introduces the idea of using the order parameter from field theory to assess order, noting that it has specific implications in symmetric and non-symmetric phases.
  • Another participant mentions the efficiency of diffraction gratings, indicating that a grating with more rulings may diffract light more effectively, which could serve as a measure of order.
  • There is a suggestion to consider examples that are less extreme and more physical rather than purely geometrical.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of "degree of order," and multiple competing views remain regarding its implications and examples. The discussion is unresolved, with varying interpretations of the concept.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity in the term "degree of order," dependence on specific definitions from different fields, and the lack of clarity on how to measure or assess order in this context.

eranb2
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Hi

can i say that 100 lines in the same direction represents a higher degree of order then
10 lines in the same direction?

if not then what is the best example?


thanks.
 
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Hi eranb2;1838295! :smile:
eranb2 said:
Hi

can i say that 100 lines in the same direction represents a higher degree of order then
10 lines in the same direction?

if not then what is the best example

Is this a thermodynamics/entropy question? :confused:

Or is it just a general "order of magnitude" question?

If the latter, how about $100 is a higher order of expenditure than $10?

If the former, "100 lines in the same direction" isn't just a higher degree of order … it's totally ordered! :biggrin:

can't you think up an example that's less extreme (and physical rather than geometrical)? :wink:
 
You definitely can say that 100 lines in a row represents an increase in order over 10 lines in a row. More energy needs to be invested to put the 100 lines in a row than it does to put just 10 in a row and that is one way to see this.
 
It's not clear what you (the OP) means by "higher degree of order". The order parameter, from field theory, has a clear meaning- it is zero in a symmetric phase and non-zero otherwise. There's ways to assess the regularity of "sort of" periodic functions by looking at the Fourier transform- arrays of lines can be represented fairly simply, and given the same line-line spacing, 100 lines require a larger envelope than 10; in Fourier space, the first function will cover a smaller spectral range, with an interpretation that it more closely approximates a truly periodic function.

Another way to think of the situation is for a diffraction grating- a grating with 100 rulings will diffract more efficiently than a grating of 10 rulings; this can be a measure of order as well, I suppose.

Can you be a little more specific by what you mean?
 
Hi

I read david bohm's book about order and creativity and was thinking.
 

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