What is the equation for calculating average gas flow in a compressed syringe?

In summary, if the starting pressure is 5 bars and the final pressure is 10 bars, the average gas flow is between 40 and 50 mL per minute.
  • #1
InterestingStuff
1
0
Hi, I tried looking for similar topics but nothing really solved my problem.

How can I calculate the average gas flow on a syringe that was compressed over time, if the starting and ending pressure and volume are known?

I am guessing there must be an equation which can relate these variables. So for instance if I started at 50mL, with a pressure of 5bar and after 10 minutes the syringe was at 40mL with a pressure of 10bar, what was the average gas flow? Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Are you familiar with the ideal gas law?
 
  • #3
InterestingStuff said:
Hi, I tried looking for similar topics but nothing really solved my problem.

How can I calculate the average gas flow on a syringe that was compressed over time, if the starting and ending pressure and volume are known?

I am guessing there must be an equation which can relate these variables. So for instance if I started at 50mL, with a pressure of 5bar and after 10 minutes the syringe was at 40mL with a pressure of 10bar, what was the average gas flow? Thanks in advance.
The first step is to figure out what sort of result you want.

Are you after a volumetric flow rate? How much volume over so much time? But that would not make much sense. You have a wide variation of pressure. At a high pressure, you lose a lot of gas without much volume flowing. At a lower pressure you can lose more gas with the same volume flowing.

At what pressure should you be assessing the flow rate? Maybe you want a volumetric flow rate based on the volume that the fluid would have at 1 bar and standard temperature.

Tell us what you want out of the calculation.
 
  • #4
I believe you are going to need to define how the pressure ##P## changes in time.

This would not be the typical input for compressing gas in a syringe. What would typically be controlled in this type of scenario would be the change in volume of the gas per unit time ## \frac{d V\llap{-}}{dt}## (the very thing you seem to be after). Imagine markings on the syringe, we typically ask "if I'm controlling the rate at which the plunger passes a marking (units of volume), then how does the pressure in the syringe respond as a function of time".

Otherwise, the volumetric flow rate is whatever you want it to be. It's not going to be uniquely defined between initial and final states of volume and pressure.

EDIT:
Are we even ok to use the term volumetric flow rate in this instance? When I think of volumetric flow rate, I think of how much volume passes an arbitrary boundary intersecting the flow per unit time. If you imagine doing that at some arbitrary location in the "capped syringe" described, you can find a point (the cap boundary) where the "volumetric flowrate" is zero over the duration of the compression.
 
Last edited:
  • #5
erobz said:
Are we even ok to use the term volumetric flow rate in this instance?
This appears to be a leaky syringe. So I was assuming "volumetric flow rate past the seal".
 
  • #6
jbriggs444 said:
This appears to be a leaky syringe. So I was assuming "volumetric flow rate past the seal".
How do we know that?
 
  • Like
Likes jbriggs444
  • #7
erobz said:
How do we know that?
Starting pressure times starting volume is not equal to pressure times final volume. It's a ratio of 250 to 400. Which suggests either a large change in absolute temperature. Or... addition of gas. Whoops, that's not leaking out, that's leaking in at the same time someone is pushing on the plunger.

Are the numbers in this situation just made up from whole cloth?
 
  • #8
jbriggs444 said:
Starting pressure times starting volume is not equal to pressure times final volume. It's a ratio of 250 to 400. Which suggests either a large change in absolute temperature. Or... addition of gas. Whoops, that's not leaking out, that's leaking in at the same time someone is pushing on the plunger.
Yeah, I believe that if the temperature is changing, we can't assume an isothermal process and ##P_1 {V\llap{-}}_1 \neq P_2 {V\llap{-}}_2 ##, and if we are adding gas to the syringe the mass is not constant and again and it shouldn't be valid to do that computation.

I think the part about them pushing on the plunger and gas coming "in" (passing the seal) is ok if the gas in the syringe is initially under relative vacuum to it surroundings.

jbriggs444 said:
Are the numbers in this situation just made up from whole cloth?
I would suspect they were just naively constructed numerical examples.
 
  • Like
Likes jbriggs444
  • #9
However, those numbers don't appear to be out of the realm of possibility:

For a gas undergoing a process where the temperature isn't constant (but mass is fixed), we have that:

$$ \frac{P_1 {V \llap{-}}_1}{ P_2 {V \llap{-} }_2} = \frac{T_1}{T_2} $$

For the numbers given this implies

$$ \frac{T_1}{T_2} < 1 $$

Heat must be added during the process. Which I realize now this is what you were implying.
 
  • #10
This thread seems to be a "hit and run" - the OP came back, took a look. No interaction. Probably got his answer elsewhere.

So, we'll lock the thread in another day or so.
 

Related to What is the equation for calculating average gas flow in a compressed syringe?

1. What is the average gas flow of a syringe?

The average gas flow of a syringe varies depending on the size and type of the syringe, as well as the pressure and temperature of the gas being used. However, for a standard 10 mL syringe, the average gas flow is around 10-12 mL per second.

2. How does the average gas flow of a syringe affect experiments?

The average gas flow of a syringe is an important factor to consider in experiments that involve precise measurements or controlled gas delivery. A higher gas flow can result in faster and less accurate delivery, while a lower gas flow can lead to slower and more precise delivery.

3. Can the average gas flow of a syringe be adjusted?

Yes, the average gas flow of a syringe can be adjusted by changing the pressure or temperature of the gas, or by using a different size or type of syringe. Some syringes also have adjustable flow control mechanisms.

4. What factors can affect the average gas flow of a syringe?

Aside from the size and type of syringe, the average gas flow can also be affected by the viscosity of the gas, the diameter and length of the syringe needle, and any obstructions or blockages in the syringe or tubing.

5. How can the average gas flow of a syringe be measured?

The average gas flow of a syringe can be measured using a flow meter or by timing how long it takes for a certain volume of gas to be delivered. It is important to take multiple measurements and calculate the average to account for any variations in flow rate.

Similar threads

Replies
18
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
15K
  • Classical Physics
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
26
Views
2K
  • Classical Physics
Replies
2
Views
869
  • Classical Physics
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Back
Top