What is the work done by a person on a box during horizontal displacement?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of work done by a person on a box during horizontal displacement, particularly in the context of a scenario where a box is lifted vertically and then moved horizontally. Participants are questioning and analyzing the standard answers provided in a physics quiz regarding the work done during these displacements.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assertion that the work done during horizontal displacement is zero, suggesting that the person must have done work to move the box.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the direction of the force exerted on the box compared to the direction of the box's movement.
  • A participant notes that in reality, the person must have accelerated the box to start it moving and decelerated it to stop, although they suggest ignoring these complexities.
  • Another participant agrees with the previous point, indicating that the work done could be considered arbitrarily small if the person moves slowly, and states that once in motion, the horizontal force exerted on the box is zero if moving at constant speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether work is done during the horizontal displacement, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge complexities such as the need to accelerate and decelerate the box, which may affect the analysis of work done, but these are suggested to be ignored for the sake of the discussion.

vinirn
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I think this post is appropriate here, because it is a conceptual problem, and I am questioning the standard answer.
From the halliday Quick quiz 7.2:

A person lifts a heavy box of mass m a vertical distance h and then walks horizontally a distance d while holding the box, as shown in Figure 7.5. Determine (a) the work he does on the box and (b) the work done on the box by the force of gravity.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/698994/ilustra%20forums/person_lift_box.jpg​
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the Halliday's answers:
(a) Assuming the person lifts with a force of magnitude mg, the weight of the box, the work he does during the vertical displacement is mgh because the force is in the direction of the displacement. The work he does during the horizontal displacement is zero because now the force he exerts on the box is perpendicular to the displacement. The net work he does is mgh + 0 = mgh.
(b) The work done by the gravitational force on the box as the box is displaced vertically is -mgh because the direction of this force is opposite the direction of the displacement. The work done by the gravitational force is zero during the horizontal displacement because now
the direction of this force is perpendicular to the direction of the displacement. The net work done by the gravitational force - mgh + 0 = -mgh. The total work done on the box is mgh - mgh =  0


Could someone discuss the "The work he does during the horizontal displacement is zero because now the force he exerts on the box is perpendicular to the displacement" part? I think the person did work during this step.
 
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vinirn said:
Could someone discuss the "The work he does during the horizontal displacement is zero because now the force he exerts on the box is perpendicular to the displacement" part? I think the person did work during this step.
Why do you think he did work? In what direction does he exert a force on the box? In what direction does the box move?

(In reality, he must have accelerated the box a tiny bit to start it moving, then deaccelerated it to stop once he got where he wanted. Ignore these minor complications.)
 
Doc Al said:
(In reality, he must have accelerated the box a tiny bit to start it moving, then deaccelerated it to stop once he got where he wanted. Ignore these minor complications.)

These minor complications are what I was referring to.
 
vinirn said:
These minor complications are what I was referring to.
Well, that's good thinking on your part. :smile:

You can always imagine that the person moves horizontally so slowly that the amount of work he must do to get the box moving can be arbitrarily small. And once he's moving, the horizontal force exerted on the box is zero, assuming he's moving at a constant speed.
 

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