The discussion revolves around the thermal interaction between a large amount of water at 0°C and ice at various sub-zero temperatures, specifically examining the outcomes of mixing these substances under ideal conditions.
The discussion is active, with participants sharing their thoughts on how the temperatures will equilibrate and the potential formation of ice. Some participants suggest that the final temperature will be an intermediate value, while others question the conditions necessary for all water to freeze.
Participants are considering the implications of the specific temperatures involved, particularly 0°C, and how the proportions of ice and water affect the outcomes. There is an emphasis on the need for heat transfer and the conditions required for phase changes to occur.
jedishrfu said:What do you think and why?
Mister T said:What will happen when a large amount of water at 0 C is mixed with ice at - 10 C?
Joe brewer said:The same thing except it would equilibrate at a higher temp (still below zero). Probably less ice formed as well. Am I on the right track here?
Edit: or if there is enough ice, All of the water would turn to ice in both cases because all the water has to decrease in temperature.
0C is when any amount of water and ice would be at equilibrium.
What would happen if the intermediate temperature happened to be - 10 degrees. How would it know to stop at - 10 degrees? You just told us that if you have ice at - 10 degrees in water at 0 degrees, the ice would heat up and more ice would form, and the ice would reach another intermediate temperature somewhere between -10 and 0. What if the new intermediate temperature happened to be - 5 degrees. How would it know to stop at - 5 degrees?Joe brewer said:Yep! Basically as long as the ice is below zero, equilibrium will be at an intermediate temperature and will have x amount of additional ice.
No. There would be ice and water left in the end, but the final temperature would be ?Joe brewer said:So it would all turn to ice no matter what?
Well, I was thinking somewhere between zero and the temp of the ice. Would it always be zero but the amount of ice would just increase? That's the only way I can think of that allows any water to be left over.Chestermiller said:No. There would be ice and water left in the end, but the final temperature would be ?
Joe brewer said:Well, I was thinking somewhere between zero and the temp of the ice. Would it always be zero but the amount of ice would just increase? That's the only way I can think of that allows any water to be left over.
Why do you feel this way? If you had ice floating in ice water inside an insulated container at 0C, do you feel like all the water would turn to ice. Where would all the heat given off when the water turned to ice go to? You are aware that, in order for water to turn to ice at 0 C, you need to remove the heat of freezing, correct?Joe brewer said:Well, I was thinking somewhere between zero and the temp of the ice. Would it always be zero but the amount of ice would just increase? That's the only way I can think of that allows any water to be left over.
What recrystallization? After step 4, you have ice at 0 C sitting in a pool of ice water at 0 C. Game over. Nothing more happens. The system is now at equilibrium. To get more water to freeze, you would have to physically remove heat from the system.Joe brewer said:Let me walk you through what I'm thinking
1.ice is added
2.water gives up heat to ice, heating it up and turning into ice (still at 0c)
3.this continues until all the ice(old and new) is at 0c
4.water is still at 0c
On another note, Is this how (re) crystallization works?