When do marbles behave like a liquid in a beaker?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which marbles in a beaker behave like a liquid, particularly focusing on the effects of marble size and packing. Participants explore the transition from solid-like to liquid-like behavior in granular materials, considering factors such as interatomic forces, density, and external influences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the transition occurs when marbles are sufficiently small, allowing them to flow around a stationary object like a cork.
  • Others argue that the complexity of the situation arises from interatomic spacing and forces, which depend on temperature and pressure.
  • A participant mentions that if the marbles are uniform in size, they will pack consistently, affecting their density and flow characteristics.
  • It is suggested that local noise or vibration relative to the marble diameter plays a significant role in facilitating movement among the marbles.
  • Lubrication of marble surfaces is also noted as a factor that may influence the behavior of the marbles.
  • One participant references the concept of powder sedimentation and fluidized beds, indicating that this is a complex and heavily-researched area.
  • The "Brazil nut effect" is introduced as a related phenomenon that may provide insight into the behavior of granular materials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specific conditions or mechanisms that lead to marbles behaving like a liquid. Multiple competing views and hypotheses remain, reflecting the complexity of the topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations such as the dependence on definitions of solid and liquid states, the influence of external factors like temperature and pressure, and the unresolved nature of the mathematical modeling of these phenomena.

beamthegreat
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If we place a cork in a beaker then filled the beaker with normal-sized marbles, the cork will remain stationary at the bottom of the beaker. However, if we continuously decrease the size of the marble, at a certain point, the marbles will behave like a liquid and the cork will rise to the top of the beaker. When does this happen and why?
If we place a cork in a beaker then filled the beaker with normal-sized marbles, the cork will remain stationary at the bottom of the beaker. However, if we continuously decrease the size of the marble, at a certain point, the marbles will behave like a liquid and the cork will rise to the top of the beaker. When does this happen and why?
 
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That sounds like a simple question, but it is not. The complete story is very complicated.

The thing that determines whether a collection of molecules is a solid, liquid, or gas is interatomic spacing and interatomic forces. Those thing depend on temperature and pressure. Have a look at the following diagram.
1630504059646.png


If you would like to learn more about I recommend starting with this Wikipedia page. A bowl full of marbles is far too complicated to learn from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_transition
 
beamthegreat said:
When does this happen and why?
If the marbles are all the same size, they will pack the same way and have the same density, independent of diameter.

The amplitude of local noise or vibration relative to diameter, will be important in causing the marbles to move against each other, and so flow down around the cork.

Lubrication of the marble surfaces will also be important.
 
beamthegreat said:
Summary:: If we place a cork in a beaker then filled the beaker with normal-sized marbles, the cork will remain stationary at the bottom of the beaker. However, if we continuously decrease the size of the marble, at a certain point, the marbles will behave like a liquid and the cork will rise to the top of the beaker. When does this happen and why?

If we place a cork in a beaker then filled the beaker with normal-sized marbles, the cork will remain stationary at the bottom of the beaker. However, if we continuously decrease the size of the marble, at a certain point, the marbles will behave like a liquid and the cork will rise to the top of the beaker. When does this happen and why?
As @anorlunda mentioned, it's not so simple. The settling of a fine powder is a heavily-researched topic, as is "fluidized beds". I believe that powder sedimentation is a logarithmic process- the powder does not become 'fully settled' in a finite time.

https://www.pnas.org/content/112/1/49

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X08000875

Not to be forgotten is the "Brazil nut effect":

https://www.nature.com/articles/429352b
https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.92.114301
 
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