When electronics engineer design/construct circuits?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity of advanced mathematics in the design and construction of electronic circuits. Participants explore the types of mathematical knowledge required, the role of software simulations, and whether shortcuts can be taken in learning essential concepts related to circuit design, such as the voltage across capacitors and the time constants of RL circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether advanced math is necessary for circuit design, suggesting that basic algebra might suffice for simple circuits.
  • Others argue that while software simulations can assist in circuit design, a fundamental understanding of the components and their behaviors is essential.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of knowing the voltage across capacitors and the time constants of RL circuits, stating that this knowledge is crucial for designing effective circuits.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of taking shortcuts in learning, with some participants warning that this could lead to negative consequences in employment and professional competence.
  • There are mentions of the complexity involved in electronic design, which requires not only application of laws but also intuition and experience.
  • Some participants highlight that understanding the natural response of RC/RL circuits is vital for working with non-steady currents and voltages.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the necessity of advanced math in circuit design, with some advocating for a strong foundational knowledge while others suggest that simpler circuits may not require extensive mathematical understanding. Overall, the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the complexity of the circuit influences the level of mathematical knowledge required, and there are varying opinions on the role of software simulations in circuit design. The discussion reflects a mix of theoretical and practical considerations without reaching a consensus on the necessity of shortcuts in learning.

AchillesWrathfulLove
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Do they have to know advanced math to design and construct circuits? What kind of math goes into design and construction of a circuit? Can you let the software simulation take care of that? Do you really need to know the voltage across a capacitor? How about the time constant of an RL Circuit or Natural response of an RL Circuit? Is it simpler than that to design and construct circuits?

I am wondering if I can take short cuts here instead of learning stuff I don't need to really know.
 
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AchillesWrathfulLove said:
Do they have to know advanced math to design and construct circuits? What kind of math goes into design and construction of a circuit? Can you let the software simulation take care of that? Do you really need to know the voltage across a capacitor? How about the time constant of an RL Circuit or Natural response of an RL Circuit? Is it simpler than that to design and construct circuits?

I am wondering if I can take short cuts here instead of learning stuff I don't need to really know.
Wait, you want to become an EE, but you don't want to learn all about circuits?
 
It depends on the complexity of the circuit. You can (and likely will) design a basic circuit in your first EE class using nothing but basic algebra.

AchillesWrathfulLove said:
Can you let the software simulation take care of that?

You'll be the one deciding which components to place, how to connect them, the details of the power source, etc. A computer can help you solve the unknowns and makes it easier to design large, complex circuits, but it doesn't replace the Mark I brain. :wink:

AchillesWrathfulLove said:
Do you really need to know the voltage across a capacitor? How about the time constant of an RL Circuit or Natural response of an RL Circuit? Is it simpler than that to design and construct circuits?

In general, no, it's not simpler than that. If you want to build non-trivial useful circuits for the real world you'll need to know all the stuff they teach in EE. The experience you gain while learning the basics, along with tools and techniques you'll learn about, will make things easier, but they won't replace an actual understanding of the components.

AchillesWrathfulLove said:
I am wondering if I can take short cuts here instead of learning stuff I don't need to really know.

Don't ever try to take short cuts when learning the basics of a subject. Learn as much as you can. If you skimp on the basics, it will bite you on the backside later on.
 
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Drakkith said:
Don't ever try to take short cuts when learning the basics of a subject. Learn as much as you can. If you skimp on the basics, it will bite you on the backside later on.

Amen.

Simplification can occur when you can interconnect special purpose circuits with well define functions or characteristics for which you know how a signal is transferred/generated through/by the circuit. Thus you have amplifiers, oscillators, filters, regulators, comparators, power supplies, for analog electronics and gates, analog to digital converters,latches, timing circuits, synchronizers for digital circuits for example. It is not surprising that electronic texts are 1000 or more pages long.

I must mention that electronic design is not just application of certain laws but requires rules of thumb or tricks to get circuits to work the way you want and requires you to develop an intuition for their functioning for example what does a capacitor or inductor due in DC or AC circuits.

I have heard stories of prototype circuits (for research) that were designed and functioning on a bread board which when cleaned up and neatly organized and soldered did not work because inter component capacitances changed too much. Electrons is both a combination of science and art.
 
AchillesWrathfulLove said:
I am wondering if I can take short cuts here instead of learning stuff I don't need to really know.

You are forgetting the threat of automation. You don't want your employer to replace you with a machine. Employees who take short cuts will be the first to be fired.
 
AchillesWrathfulLove said:
Do they have to know advanced math to design and construct circuits? What kind of math goes into design and construction of a circuit? Can you let the software simulation take care of that?

Depends on the circuit. For some digital circuits very little or no maths is required. For some analogue circuits a lot of maths is required. Sometimes software can help with the maths but not always.

Do you really need to know the voltage across a capacitor?

You almost always need a rough idea of the voltage as capacitors have a maximium voltage rating. For some circuits you may need to know the exact voltage and how it changes with time or even temperature.

How about the time constant of an RL Circuit or Natural response of an RL Circuit? Is it simpler than that to design and construct circuits?

I am wondering if I can take short cuts here instead of learning stuff I don't need to really know.

You definitely need to know that stuff.
 
anorlunda said:
Employees who take short cuts will be the first to be fired

They also have a more difficult time becoming employees in the first place.
 
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Consider this Achilles. Would you go to a surgeon who skipped most of of medical school and only learned how to cut you open, but not where or why?
 
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Also, if you don't understand the math, how can you possibly interpret the simulation results? The output of a simulator is only as good as the thinking that went into setting the simulation up.
 
  • #10
Tell why you would need to know Natural response of an RC/RL Circuit when constructing or designing a circuit with Capacitors/Inductors?
 
  • #11
AchillesWrathfulLove said:
Tell why you would need to know Natural response of an RC/RL Circuit when constructing or designing a circuit with Capacitors/Inductors?

So you can design just about every kind of circuit that deals with non-steady current/voltages.This is a crucial concept that you must understand, as it underlies an enormous number of electrical and electronic components.
 
  • #12
You would definitely need to know the usefulness of the time constant when designing a timing circuit.
 

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