Music Why are ABBA so popular?

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The discussion centers on the enduring quality of music, particularly focusing on the Beatles' songwriting prowess. Participants emphasize that while many can write tunes, creating consistently great music that resonates over decades is rare. They argue that strong musical composition is paramount, with effective delivery enhancing but not defining a song's greatness. Comparisons are drawn between the Beatles and ABBA, noting that the Beatles' individual talents contributed significantly to their lasting success. Overall, the conversation highlights the complex interplay of composition, performance, and cultural impact in music.
  • #31
pinball1970 said:
Boney M were more of a creation, some of the members did not sing and none of them did any writing.
I honestly didn't know that. I'm aware that ABBA are in a class of their own though. No criticism intended. As I said: heavy bias. :P


[EDIT: s/it's/theirs]?
[EDIT: s/is/are]?

English. Crazy language.

It would be much easier if you all talked Danish. It's that too much to ask?
 
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  • #32
sbrothy said:
It would be much easier if you all talked Danish. It's that too much to ask?
A class of their own.

If I had a Danish friend as a youngster I am sure I would have made an attempt to learn some.
 
  • #33
"Argh." says the pedant.

ABBA is a band. One band.
ABBA is singular. ABBA are not plural.

"Why is ABBA so popular?"
"... ABBA is in a class of its own ..."

:mad:
 
  • #34
DaveC426913 said:
"Argh." says the pedant.

ABBA is a band. One band.
ABBA is singular. ABBA are not plural.

"Why is ABBA so popular?"
"... ABBA is in a class of its own ..."

:mad:
You're probably technically correct, but people more often seem to use plural when referring to ABBA. For example: https://abbasite.com uses "their" when referring to ABBA. :oldbiggrin:
 
  • #35
docnet said:
For example: https://abbasite.com uses "their" when referring to ABBA. :oldbiggrin:
What do they know. Weirdos.
 
  • #36
ABBA who ???, ...ahh..., now I know why I have barely heard of them; they were not formed until 1972! I had stopped listening to pop music by then and was trying to earn a living. to me the Beatles were a recent fad. my apologies to the cognoscenti.

I am pretty sure now they did not name themselves after this classic song:
 
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  • #37
DaveC426913 said:
"Argh." says the pedant.

ABBA is a band. One band.
ABBA is singular. ABBA are not plural.

"Why is ABBA so popular?"
"... ABBA is in a class of its own ..."

:mad:
I don't feel that. ABBA is multiple people like a football team. Manchester United is in a class of its own? That does not work for me.
Look I want to get into the flattened 5th thing with " I'm a Marionette" so we need to put this to bed.
Linguistics thread?
 
  • #38
mathwonk said:
ABBA who ???, ...ahh..., now I know why I have barely heard of them; they were not formed until 1972! I had stopped listening to pop music by then and was trying to earn a living. to me the Beatles were a recent fad. my apologies to the cognoscenti.

I am pretty sure now they did not name themselves after this classic song:

ABBA is just the first names of the people in the band.
 
  • #39
DaveC426913 said:
"Argh." says the pedant.

ABBA is a band. One band.
ABBA is singular. ABBA are not plural.

"Why is ABBA so popular?"
"... ABBA is in a class of its own ..."

:mad:
Yeah I knew I effed up but at that time I’d edited the post so many times already I just sorta decided to live my errors. Thus my comment about your inability to talk decent Danish.

Seriously, how hard can it be for you people to talk a language 5 million out of 7 billion master?

:)
 
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  • #40
sbrothy said:
Yeah I knew I effed up but at that time I’d edited the post so many times already I just sorta decided to live my errors. Thus my comment about your inability to talk decent Danish.

Seriously, how hard can it be for you people to talk a language 5 million out of 7 billion master?

:)
You're not wrong! ABBA is people, plural. @DaveC426913
 
  • #41
pinball1970 said:
You're not wrong! ABBA is people, plural. @DaveC426913
Oooh ouch. *Hides in a corner*.
 
  • #42
sbrothy said:
Seriously, how hard can it be for you people to talk a language 5 million out of 7 billion master?

:)
1723746060751.png

:woot:
 
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  • #43
pinball1970 said:
You're not wrong! ABBA is people, plural. @DaveC426913
Yes, it is made up of people, but "ABBA" is a band. Singular. Period. You would not likely say "the team are winning" and you should not say "ABBA are in a class of it's own" or "ABBA are a great band".
grammar-police-badge-SMALL.jpg
 
  • #44
phinds said:
Yes, it is made up of people, but "ABBA" is a band. Singular. Period. You would not likely say "the team are winning" and you should not say "ABBA are in a class of it's own" or "ABBA are a great band".
View attachment 349952
I agree. But this sortta shut me down:
docnet said:
For example: https://abbasite.com uses "their" when referring to ABBA.
 
  • #45
DaveC426913 said:
I agree. But this sortta shut me down:
The fact that they got it wrong doesn't make it right.
 
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  • #46
phinds said:
Yes, it is made up of people, but "ABBA" is a band. Singular. Period. You would not likely say "the team are winning" and you should not say "ABBA are in a class of it's own" or "ABBA are a great band
I really didn’t know here. The fact that you, supposedly, natural English speakers disagree gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. :)
 
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  • #47
sbrothy said:
I really didn’t know here. The fact that you, supposedly, natural English speakers disagree gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. :)
Well, don't let it go to your head. I disagree with everyone :smile:
 
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  • #48
phinds said:
Yes, it is made up of people, but "ABBA" is a band. Singular. Period. You would not likely say "the team are winning" and you should not say "ABBA are in a class of it's own" or "ABBA are a great band".
View attachment 349952
To be honest I would say "ABBA are a great band," also "ABBA are in a class of THEIR own."
"They are in a class of their own."
So I should be saying, "ABBA is in a class of its own?"

I am moving offices today, it is 8.28am in sunny Oldham NW England and all I am thinking about now, is doubting the grammar of my mother tongue.

We can at least agree English is a silly language I hope.

I bet ABBA never made grammatical errors.
 
  • #49
pinball1970 said:
Boney M were more of a creation, some of the members did not sing and none of them did any writing.
The lead singer, Liz Mitchell, had a great voice. She could have had a successful solo career.

The big difference was ABBA's songwriting. Although, Rasputin might be the best pure pop song ever! I heard a music critic say that the best pop should have something surreal about it.
 
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  • #50
phinds said:
Yes, it is made up of people, but "ABBA" is a band. Singular. Period. You would not likely say "the team are winning" and you should not say "ABBA are in a class of it's own" or "ABBA are a great band".
View attachment 349952
Oliver's army is here to stay.
Oliver's army are on their way.
 
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  • #51
I have never ever heard anyone refer to The Beatles as singular.

"The Beatles is the best"? No way.

They might say "Wham! is the best."
 
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  • #52
PeroK said:
Oliver's army is here to stay.
Oliver's army are on their way.
Clever trick he used there.

John Lennon used awful English on "How do you sleep." Probably to make it more edgy for his attack on McCartney.

"The only thing you done was yesterday."
 
  • #53
This is brilliant and bonkers.



 
  • #54
pinball1970 said:
This is brilliant and bonkers.




I'm a sucker for the xylophone.

Here's a cover.

 
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  • #55
PeroK said:
Oliver's army is here to stay.
Oliver's army are on their way.
Not sure what your point is. If you think "Oliver's army are on their way" you would be wrong. It should be "Oliver's army is on the way"

It would be correct to say "The men in Oliver's army are on their way"
 
  • #56
phinds said:
Not sure what your point is. If you think "Oliver's army are on their way" you would be wrong. It should be "Oliver's army is on the way"

It would be correct to say "The men in Oliver's army are on their way"
English is flexible, at least in common usage, in terms of a team or group being seen as a singular or plural noun, depending on the context. This is exemplified in those Elvis Costello lyrics. The second line implies the men in the army without stating this explicitly. I'm not sure of the status of this in terms of formal grammar, but it's stretching a point to say it's wrong. An English dictionary will often say something like "careful speakers will say such and such".

Similarly, it would be stretching a point to say that "Led Zeppelin are playing Madison Square Garden" is wrong. Or, "Real Madrid are the champions of Europe". The last one is particularly problematic if you insist that Real Madrid is a singular noun. "Real Madrid is the champion team of Europe" sounds clumsy and overly formal to me.
 
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  • #57
PeroK said:
Similarly, it would be stretching a point to say that "Led Zeppelin are playing Madison Square Garden" is wrong.
Gotta disagree.

Led Zeppelin is a single thing, not plural.

You might as well say "Madison Square Garden are sold out tonight."
 
  • #58
  • #59
PeroK said:
English is flexible, at least in common usage
On that we agree completely. I'm a bit more of a stickler than most people (OK, a LOT more) but I DO recognize that English is flexible and changing.

For example, when I was a kid saying something like "Thankfully, they were all OK" could only be interpreted grammatically as meaning that (1) they were all OK and (2) I am thankful for some unspecified thing. Also, "The desk will, hopefully, arrive before the weekend, could only be grammatically correct if you meant that the desk WILL arrive before the weekend and when it gets here it will be hopeful (about what is not specified).

Incorrect usage was SO prevalent that, as usually happens, "correct" bowed to actual usage, which is what a living language should do.

We disagree on singular/plural usage but it's one of those things where what I think of as correct may well change over time (and is, I guess, in the process of doing that now).
 
  • #60
PeroK said:
Madison Square Garden is not a collective noun.
Neither is Led Zeppelin, or ABBA.

Both are not just four peeps in a vacuum. A band is more than just its performers or occupants, just like MSG. They have a structure, they are surrounded by support people, and they are useless without their volumes of equipment.
 
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