Why don't we get thrusted(pierced) inside solid floor.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why humans do not pass through solid floors, exploring concepts related to atomic structure, particularly the Pauli exclusion principle, and the forces at play in atomic orbitals. Participants delve into the implications of quantum mechanics and historical developments in physics, including references to Planck's work.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the Pauli exclusion principle is fundamental to understanding why solid objects resist penetration, as it contributes to the solidity of matter.
  • One participant mentions that the filling of atomic orbitals and the resistance to adding more electrons is a key aspect of this phenomenon.
  • Another participant questions the forces that maintain electrons in higher energy levels, suggesting a need for clarification on why electrons do not occupy all available states in a continuous manner.
  • Some contributions reference the solution to Schrödinger's equation, indicating that energy levels occur in bands due to the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • A historical perspective is provided on Planck's contributions to quantum theory, including the development of the concept of quantized energy levels and the implications for understanding atomic behavior.
  • Links to external articles are shared, suggesting further reading on related topics, including the nature of solid objects and quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the role of quantum mechanics in explaining solidity, with some agreeing on the significance of the Pauli exclusion principle while others raise additional questions about the underlying forces and historical context. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on complex topics in quantum mechanics and atomic theory, with references to historical developments that may not be fully resolved or universally accepted among participants. Some assumptions about the nature of forces and electron behavior are not explicitly stated, leading to potential gaps in understanding.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring quantum mechanics, atomic theory, and the historical development of physics concepts, particularly those curious about the foundational principles that govern the behavior of matter.

gianeshwar
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Dear Friends!
Why don't we get thrusted(pierced) inside solid floor.
Is there anything related to "Pauli's exclusion principle here"?
If yes ,HOW?
 
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Thank You Bhobba! Your link is very informative.I am not an expert in the field ,but highly thrilled about nature.
Will discuss in depth soon.
 
Electrons in the prescribed orbritals (2,8,18...) keep filling and higher elements being created. What makes such a rule to come into play?
What force comes into play to work against attraction of the nucleus to maintain electrons in higher floors of atom multistory building and why they remain in fixed storeys instead of also stacking in staircases as well.Is there some role played by MAX PLANK here?
 
gianeshwar said:
What makes such a rule to come into play?

The solution to Schroedinger's equation shows the energy levels occur in bands. The Pauli Exclusion principle says you can only have one electron in the same state, so when one band fills up it goes to the next and so on.

gianeshwar said:
What force comes into play to work against attraction of the nucleus to maintain electrons in higher floors of atom multistory building and why they remain in fixed storeys instead of also stacking in staircases as well.Is there some role played by MAX PLANK here?

No force - its simply when you solve Schroedinger's equation that's the way it is:
https://faculty.washington.edu/seattle/physics227/reading/reading-26-27.pdf

Thanks
Bill
 
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Just to add a bit of history: Planck started the entire "quantum business". He was very interested in the most fundamental laws. One of the open questions at this time (end of 19th century) was the spectrum of "black bodies". It was very clear from thermodynamics, the main topic of Planck's interest and expertise, that this spectrum is independent of the specific material a black body is made up (a very good "black body" is realized by a cavity with a very little hole, through which the radiation emitted from the walls, which are held at a certain temperature). It thus only depends on fundamental natural constant.

The trouble was that classical electromagnetism (Maxwell's theory) together with thermodynamics/statistical physics leads to an absurd result: The electromagnetic field in the cavity can be described as a superposition of harmonic oscillators (Fourier decomposition of the electromagnetic field). According to the equipartition law of classical statistics each oscillator contributes an energy ##k_{\text{B}} T##, where ##k_{\text{B}}## is Boltzmann's constant (one of the fundamental natural constants, which at the end just turns out to be a conversion factor from measuring temperatures in Kelvins and energies in Joules). Now there are infinitely many such field modes in a cavity, and thus the total radiation energy becomes infinite. This socalled "ultraviolet catastrophe" cannot be avoided within classical physics.

Despite the Planck's expertise in thermodynamics and statistical physics he was also very lucky that there was a great practical interest in defining an absolute measure for the brightness of light sources. Thus, the "Physickalisch Technische Reichsanstalt" (the metrological institute of Germany at this time) set up a research project to define such a standard or unit. The black-body radiation spectrum would be an excellent standard, because it's independent of the specific material and thus can be reproduced everywhere easily. Thus, Rubens, Kurlbaum et al started a research project to measure this black-body spectrum very accurately, and this helped Planck at the end of 1899 to guess the correct radiation law which fitted the accurate data over a wide range of frequencies.

Of course, for a theoretical physicist this cannot be satisfactory at all. There is a fundamental law of nature. So there must be theoretical explanation, and indeed Planck found one, using a very clever way to apply Boltzmann's famous entropy principle, according to which ##S=k_{\text{B}} \ln \Omega##, where ##\Omega## is the number of microscopic states realizing a macroscopic state. It turned out that Planck had to assume the electromagnetic radiation can absorbed and emitted by the walls of the cavity only in portions of ##E=h f##, where ##f## is the frequency of the light wave and ##h## a then new natural constant, now called Planck's constant. For convenience nowadays we write this law in the form ##E=\hbar \omega##, where ##\hbar=h/(2 \pi)## is the "reduced Planck constant".

Although this was an ingeneous finding, and it was honored with the Nobel prize of physics for 1918, Planck was very unhappy with this finding. For the rest of his long life he tried to find a way to derive his law from classical physics, but to no success.

Then a pretty busy period started, and the quantum was everywhere all of a sudden, and it solved a lot of problems (also closely related to thermodynamics but also to the upcoming atomic and nuclear physics) like the problem of the specific heat of solids, the discrete spectra of atoms, the structure of the chemical elements described by the periodic table, etc. However, the state was very unpleasant to all physicists until 1925, when a young physicist, Werner Heisenberg, found a formulation of "modern quantum theory" (then worked out by Born, Jordan, and Heisenberg himself; this we now call "matrix mechanics"). A bit later, in 1926, E. Schrödinger, working out an ingeneous idea workded by L. de Broglie as his PhD work) found another version of modern quantum theory in terms of partial differential equations, now called wave mechanics. Schrödinger could soon show that the apparently different theories by the Born group and himself was in fact the same theory. This was shown also by P.A.M. Dirac, who finally found the general formulation, which allows to use matrix mechanics or wave mechanics whenever the one or the other is more convenient for a given problem. The mathematical foundations of non-relativistic quantum theory was worked out by J. von Neumann (Hilbert-space formalism, theory of unbound operators etc.).
 
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Thank You Dear Friends.I am thrilled with your interesting ,serious, and useful responses and am encouraged to study more.Will be back soon.
 
gianeshwar said:
Thank You Dear Friends.I am thrilled with your interesting ,serious, and useful responses and am encouraged to study more.Will be back soon.

And thank you for your kind and respectful posts.

Thanks
Bill
 

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