Why is it right that the irrotational flow must have the velocity potential?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between irrotational flow and the existence of a velocity potential, specifically exploring the derivation and implications of this relationship in fluid dynamics. The scope includes theoretical aspects and mathematical reasoning related to the Helmholtz theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why irrotational flow must have a velocity potential and requests a derivation of this concept.
  • Another participant references the Helmholtz theorem, suggesting that if a flow is irrotational, then it can be expressed as the gradient of a potential function.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding how to demonstrate that a potential does not exist if the curl of the flow is non-zero.
  • It is noted that if a flow has a potential, then the curl of the flow must be zero, as the curl of the gradient of any scalar field is always zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree on the implications of the Helmholtz theorem regarding irrotational flows and potential functions, but the discussion includes questions and challenges regarding the reverse implication when the curl is non-zero, indicating some unresolved aspects.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the properties of vector fields and their relationship to scalar potentials, as well as the mathematical implications of the curl operator. Specific mathematical steps and definitions are not fully resolved.

Chuck88
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When I am studying the ratation of the fluid, I found one sentence: "The irrotational flow must have the velocity potential." Why? Can someone tell me the derivation of this equation?
 
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Hi Chuck88! :smile:
Chuck88 said:
When I am studying the ratation of the fluid, I found one sentence: "The irrotational flow must have the velocity potential." Why? Can someone tell me the derivation of this equation?

It's the Helmholtz theorem, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_decomposition#Statement_of_the_theorem

If F is irrotational, and if φ is defined as shown there, you can check that φ = F :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Chuck88! :smile:


It's the Helmholtz theorem, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_decomposition#Statement_of_the_theorem

If F is irrotational, and if φ is defined as shown there, you can check that φ = F :wink:

Thanks for your reply and from the materials you provided, I have known some of the knowledge I did not know before. Another question is that suppose I have alreadly got the value of a curl, which is not equal to zero, how can I prove reversely that the potential does not exist?
 
Hi Chuck88! :smile:
Chuck88 said:
… suppose I have alreadly got the value of a curl, which is not equal to zero, how can I prove reversely that the potential does not exist?

Because curl grad = 0.

So if the flow F has a potential φ,

then F = φ.

so x F = x φ = 0. :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Chuck88! :smile:


Because curl grad = 0.

So if the flow F has a potential φ,

then F = φ.

so x F = x φ = 0. :wink:

Thanks for your reply. I have found one link which could is also quite useful.
http://mathinsight.org/curl_gradient_zero
 

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