Why should I go to grad school?

[ice109]

i have a much better question, that doesn't often get asked: i have a high gpa, excell in my classes, could probably score very well on the gre and pgre, but i hate research so far. and yet i still feel like i should go to grad school. what am i to do?

 

[Andy Resnick]

i have a much better question, that doesn't often get asked: i have a high gpa, excell in my classes, could probably score very well on the gre and pgre, but i hate research so far. and yet i still feel like i should go to grad school. what am i to do?

Why do you feel like you should go to grad school? By that I mean, what specific benefit(s) do you think you will acquire by obtaining an advanced degree (MS, PhD, or whatever variant you are thinking of)?

 

[cipher42]

Why do you feel like you should go to grad school? By that I mean, what specific benefit(s) do you think you will acquire by obtaining an advanced degree (MS, PhD, or whatever variant you are thinking of)?

I agree with Andy. It's very important to ask yourself why you should go to grad school. What is your long-term goal? If that goal requires or strongly suggests grad school of some sort, then go with. Just "going because you feel like it" is probably not a great motivation. Let the end justify the means, not the other way around.

 

[Geometrick]

I don't think anyone that does well in a subject should go to grad school. It depends on the person of course. Grad school will be about research, and if you hate research, it should be a blessing to you. You know what you don't like. Now is the time to save yourself a lot of headaches and struggles for something you don't even like.

Take a year off. Study for the PGRE a little bit, but pursue some other options (if you can, I am not sure if this is plausible for you). Clearly you are able to tackle hard problems and excel, this is a very valuable skill set whose value may not be maximized in grad school. Try to get an internship somewhere, see what really motivates you. If you find nothing, I would give grad school a chance.

 

[naele]

It might be helpful to know what sort of research you're working on. Me personally when I first started out I didn't care too much for what I was doing, but it's been one year and I understand the project much more and I enjoy what I do a lot more.

 

[Pengwuino]

If what you want to do in life doesn't require a graduate degree and you don't find yourself wanting to advance your knowledge in physics, then you shouldn't feel like you need to. Take some time to think about what you want to do and whether or not an advanced degree will be worth it. If you just want to be a high school teacher or work in industry where an advanced degree doesn't grant you a higher paying salary or anything like that, then I don't see why you should.

 

[physics girl phd]

I agree with others that it's important to consider why you would want to go to graduate school (and in general graduate school for the ph.d. in physics is about research... and admissions committees look for research experience and interest in the applications).

I think there are also all kinds of possible terminal Master's degree programs that you might want to look into... for specialized fields: such as medical physics, optics, science education, etc. While there is usually some project involved and some thesis, such a project is likely to be much more applied and to help you when it's time to seek a job in the field. In fact, you might also find better monetary satisfaction too. While a Ph.D. is generally funded, the stipends are low, and post-doctoral salaries aren't that high.

In academia (after a ph.d.), you generally get to balance research with teaching and academic service, but this route requires some contemplation too. In the current economic climate, many institutions aren't hiring new faculty... and for those that are, they're actually usually looking to snatch up (for cheap) superstars that are frustrated with their present institution. Who knows how the situation will look five-seven years from now... but even before the current economic situation, I was seeing many institutions in the Chronicle of Higher Education (for example the University of Washington) looking to hire more non-tenure-track faculty (i.e. hire instead "term faculty" for a set term of two-five years).

Other routes after the ph.d. include working in industry or at a notional or military research facility... but that is, again, research, so you'd better be in a field you're interested in. These do pay decently and have decent benefits, but perhaps not much better than having found such a job at a lower level after a terminal master's program -- and spending some time accumulating hours of experience and moving up in the ranks.

 

[ice109]

Why do you feel like you should go to grad school? By that I mean, what specific benefit(s) do you think you will acquire by obtaining an advanced degree (MS, PhD, or whatever variant you are thinking of)?

because i want to be challenged and it will make me a learned person.

I agree with Andy. It's very important to ask yourself why you should go to grad school. What is your long-term goal? If that goal requires or strongly suggests grad school of some sort, then go with. Just "going because you feel like it" is probably not a great motivation. Let the end justify the means, not the other way around.

for me it's the other way around, something like that cliche quote it's the journey not the destination.

If what you want to do in life doesn't require a graduate degree and you don't find yourself wanting to advance your knowledge in physics, then you shouldn't feel like you need to. Take some time to think about what you want to do and whether or not an advanced degree will be worth it. If you just want to be a high school teacher or work in industry where an advanced degree doesn't grant you a higher paying salary or anything like that, then I don't see why you should.

but i do, or math at least, or something at least. i want to know explore one of my interests to that degree.

terminal master's isn't a bad idea.

 

[ZapperZ]

because i want to be challenged and it will make me a learned person.

But you just said that you ".. hate research...".

Zz.

 

[ice109]

But you just said that you ".. hate research...".

Zz.

how do those two sentiments conflict? i like to learn, i do not like to toil away on pointless experiments/proofs/etc

 

[cipher42]

how do those two sentiments conflict? i like to learn, i do not like to toil away on pointless experiments/proofs/etc

If that's the case, then you could consider going to grad school and toughing it out through the research and then shooting for a professorship at a liberal arts college where there is more emphasis on teaching/learning than on research.

Or a terminal masters program would provide most of the coursework of a Ph.D (hence the learning) without the pressure of a original-research oriented thesis.

 

[SonyAlmeida]

I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I'm doing really well in classes but not sure that I want my life to be all about research, but I also want to advance my knowledge and be challenged by new material. If grad school were just more classes, I'd jump at an instant.

At the moment, I'm considering a terminal master's degree; those seem to end in decent-paying jobs and don't necessarily wind up in research.

 

[Astronuc]

how do those two sentiments conflict? i like to learn, i do not like to toil away on pointless experiments/proofs/etc

Pointless? The point is to learn, no? Does one like to do homework?

The idea of a Master's degree is to perform supervised research, usually research originated by a faculty member.

The point of PhD is to perform 'independent' research, i.e. one's original research, with the objective of adding to the state of the art.

Otherwise, just take the baccalaureate and get a job like every other graduate.

 

[ice109]

Pointless? The point is to learn, no? Does one like to do homework?
The idea of a Master's degree is to perform supervised research, usually research originated by a faculty member.

The point of PhD is to perform 'independent' research, i.e. one's original research, with the objective of adding to the state of the art.

Otherwise, just take the baccalaureate and get a job like every other graduate.

give me a break. I'm sitting here right now taking data - what am i learning? this data will then be spun into a paper that states vague implications about completely useless phenomena.

in fact i do like to do hw.

 

[Astronuc]

give me a break. I'm sitting here right now taking data - what am i learning? this data will then be spun into a paper that states vague implications about completely useless phenomena.

in fact i do like to do hw.

Ideally the research one does should not be "about completely useless phenomena".

Look for patterns in the data, or a better way of analyzing the data, which shows trends or dependencies that are rather subtle. I do this on a daily basis. It's not trivial, but rather challenging.

I would recommend finding research that is more challenging, rather than discounting research.

I found homework tedious most of the time, because the answer was already known, i.e. the problems had been solved before.

The research I do now is always new, and it pushes the envelope.

 

[ice109]

i thought you were a nuclear engineer? what research do you do?

 

[Andy Resnick]

how do those two sentiments conflict? i like to learn, i do not like to toil away on pointless experiments/proofs/etc

How do you decide what is pointless and what is not?

I ask that question seriously- when performing research, one does not know the eventual outcome (or even if a particular experiment will work properly.). Fact is, most of science research *regardless of topic* is full of troubleshooting and second-guessing.

 

[Andy Resnick]

give me a break. I'm sitting here right now taking data - what am i learning? this data will then be spun into a paper that states vague implications about completely useless phenomena.

in fact i do like to do hw.

If you are spending your valuable time doing tasks that you either don't understand or consider to be a waste of your time, then you have no-one to blame but yourself.

While it's perfectly normal to get bored now and then by the minutiae inherent in research, it's not okay to think that's what research *is*.

 

[ice109]

How do you decide what is pointless and what is not?

I ask that question seriously- when performing research, one does not know the eventual outcome (or even if a particular experiment will work properly.). Fact is, most of science research *regardless of topic* is full of troubleshooting and second-guessing.

i was just being snarky to astronuc. point is i don't care about the research I've been exposed to and i don't see there being any kind that i will care about. i stated it succinctly in the first post and astronuc decided to argue semantics: i don't enjoy research, i do enjoy going to school, studying, intellectual discourse with professors/peers, etc.

 

[ice109]

If you are spending your valuable time doing tasks that you either don't understand or consider to be a waste of your time, then you have no-one to blame but yourself.

While it's perfectly normal to get bored now and then by the minutiae inherent in research, it's not okay to think that's what research *is*.

because magically i will the freedom of a tenured professor the day i step into a grad program?

 

[Andy Resnick]

So...you enjoy being a student. That's fine, but "student" is a poor choice of career.

 

[Andy Resnick]

because magically i will the freedom of a tenured professor the day i step into a grad program?

That's a joke, right?

 

[ice109]

So...you enjoy being a student. That's fine, but "student" is a poor choice of career.

really? why? because it doesn't contribute to the economy or because i wouldn't be able to subsist on the meager earnings of a student?

serious question

That's a joke, right?

how am i to blame then? i signed on to a research project and was assigned a task. i was implying that that will not be different in grad school.

 

[Dembadon]

i was just being snarky to astronuc. point is i don't care about the research I've been exposed to and i don't see there being any kind that i will care about. i stated it succinctly in the first post and astronuc decided to argue semantics: i don't enjoy research, i do enjoy going to school, studying, intellectual discourse with professors/peers, etc.

Only you can make this decision. It seems as if you have already considered the sacrifice(s) you will have to make in making a decision either way.

You have clearly stated on numerous occasions that you do not like research. So, how much do you want to be a student? You will need to find a way reconcile your feelings of resentment towards research if you choose to pursue graduate studies based on your affinity for the lifestyle of a student.

It is my assumption, based on the contents of your posts in this thread, that your dissatifaction with research outweighs your desire for further education. If this is not the case, then I am unclear on the motivations for creating this topic.

-Robert

 

[aostraff]

You realize grad school is pretty much all about research? But if you really need to, you could make a thread where we talk about how much we hate research but still want to go to grad school.

 

[cosmogirl]

I think you should give yourself a chance to try some other form of research than what you're doing now. Anything else you will be doing will also contain a lot of dull routine, but research can also be fun, because you get to choose the interesting questions and answer them.

I always enjoyed whetever research I got to do, but when I was finishing my undergrad degree, I wasn't all that thrilled at the prospect of doing a lot of it, because it did seem like a lot of routine potentially leading nowhere. I wished, then, only to take more courses and to learn new things already figured out by others. But I eventually went for a masters degree.

Where I live, a masters degree is 2 years and the core of it is a big research project. As soon as I got into that, I started to wish there would be no courses to take, so that I could concentrate solely on my research!

Perhaps you just have to find the right field, that you'll be passionate about. That will make all the difference.

--cosmogirl

 

[AUMathTutor]

I'm currently involved in a research project that is far from my first choice.

Is it interesting? Eh. Is it fun? Sometimes. Are there more interesting things I could spend my time doing? Sure.

I'm trying to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation. There is value and interesting things to be got from my research project; things to be learned, things to be experimented with, etc. It's different from school work in that (1) there's no "minimum acceptable" amount of work to do, or at least, nobody knows what that is yet; (2) often, there's no way of knowing exactly what to do next or whether what you're doing currently is of any ultimate value; (3) nobody else will know when you're done, but you will.

I would say this: tough it out. Nobody gets to do exactly the research they want to do, especially the first few projects they get involved with. You only get to do that if you stick with it and prove to people that you deserve the privilege of defining the research focus.

 

[Astronuc]

i thought you were a nuclear engineer? what research do you do?

Engineers do research.

I do simulations and predictive analysis of nuclear fuel to see how well it should perform, or how much margin to failure there exists. I also do failure analysis to learn why fuel fails, particularly when it isn't supposed to.

We use proprietary codes (basically multiphysics FEM), and occasionally, I (and my colleagues) develop new/improved models (thermophysical properties and thermomechanical behavior) from experimental data that go into the code. In some cases, we assist in the design of experiments in order to develop better models.

I also train other engineers to perform such analyses, or how to look at data to better understand how nuclear fuel actually behaves.

I did similar research in graduate school.

 

[Andy Resnick]

really? why? because it doesn't contribute to the economy or because i wouldn't be able to subsist on the meager earnings of a student?

serious question



how am i to blame then? i signed on to a research project and was assigned a task. i was implying that that will not be different in grad school.

First question- neither. It's a poor choice becasue it demonstrates an unwillingness to grow up.

Second question- You are to blame for not taking ownership of your situation. Fine, you were "assigned" a task, with the implication that you hade no say- perhaps you consented without being informed. Guess what- that's called "working for someone".

Taken together, I suspect your real complaint isn't research, but rather a desire to remain comfortably ensconced in childhood. Which is normal, but reality demands we all move forward.

 

[Choppy]

If you're still in undergrad how do you know what research really is? From my experience, most undergraduate research experience is limited to a senior thesis project or perhaps a summer position in a lab where most of the real interesting elements of research are rather limited.

However, let's say you have some significant research experience, you've talked with professors and graduate students and decided that research really isn't for you. That's fine. Just because you have a high GPA doesn't mean that you should go on to graduate school, or that you will even become a good researcher. Graduate school doesn't necessarily have to be about the research itself. There are a lot of students who use it to figure out what they want to do in life, while simply advancing their education. Along the way I've seen people develop interests in financial planning, stock trading, computer programming, teaching, project management, etc.

Also, please use proper capitalization in your posts. It makes them much easier to read.

 

[Geometrick]

It's tough to give someone reasons to go to grad school. The hours are so long, it'll take anywhere from 5 - 7 years to finish a degree that has extremely competitive job prospects, especially in physics. I've heard that physicists usually do 2 postdocs before they land a tenure track position, if they are fortunate to even land such a position. The grad stipend is enough to live, but not enough to save any significant sum for investment.

I don't think anyone can tell you that going to grad for math or physics is a great career move, unless you really want to be a mathematician or a physicist. I feel like it's such a tough experience and it only makes it exponentially harder when you aren't completely dedicated to the subject. The amount of focus and discipline required is amazing. But being a mathematician or a physicists really involves research.

I think research really is more than half your time being confused and frustrated. The other part are those rare moments when you finally understand your problem, see a new method that might work, something finally clicks (until you realize it's still wrong and you need to try again! AHH!).

Do you have any other things you'd want to pursue? I would say just to land a finance internship, but that'll be really tough in this economy. Maybe grad school is just the lesser of all evils for you and not the best choice, just the least worst?

Let's be honest here, not everyone that goes to grad school is in love with that field or subject. Some people go just to go. My advice (I said it earlier in the thread, but I think it's the best advice) is to take a year off. Don't go into grad school with any doubt. Take a year off, work, SAVE SOME MONEY, and study for the PGRE while keeping in touch with 3 or 4 potential professors who can write you a letter. Actually it can't hurt to ask them to write a letter for you now and just have them save it. Anyway, take a year off and see how you like it.

 

[SonyAlmeida]

If you're still in undergrad how do you know what research really is? From my experience, most undergraduate research experience is limited to a senior thesis project or perhaps a summer position in a lab where most of the real interesting elements of research are rather limited.

But if you don't know that you like research, how can you just sign yourself over to five or six years of it? That's what bothers me.

 

[symbolipoint]

But if you don't know that you like research, how can you just sign yourself over to five or six years of it? That's what bothers me.

That is why many undergraduate programs have a research componant built into them, and why other research opportunities are made available for undergraduate level students.

 

[D H]

Graduate school doesn't necessarily mean getting a PhD. You could go for a masters and get out. Some schools even offer non-thesis tracks. The advantage of a masters versus a bachelors is that in many fields a bachelors degree just doesn't cut it anymore. Another advantage is that nobody is hiring fresh outs right now. Two years from now things may be different.

The advantage of getting a masters degree versus a PhD is that a masters requires a lot less time and effort than does a PhD and gives you more working years during which you can accumulate wealth. One disadvantage is that you won't learn to do research. Another disadvantage of not going the whole nine yards is that a PhD opens a lot of doors and keeps them open for long after you leave school.

There is a general presumption that someone with a PhD is capable of performing a complex (and interesting) task or leading a team; they have to prove themselves incapable of doing so. The presumption is the other way around for someone with only a bachelors or masters degree.

Of course, you have to have the wherewithal to go the whole nine yards. If you only make eight yards you will end up with a nice piece of paper that says Masters of Something.

 

[cosmogirl]

Even if the economy was thriving right now, I'm not sure that OP should have searched for a real job. That would just be disappointing to him. If he doesn't even like undergrad research, there's no way he will like the industry. It's a lot more boring. Of course, you get a lot of money, but that is not always a great comfort.

And of course in won't be an easy task to find a decent job right after your undergrad.