Why tan x=x as x approaches 0?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter rishi kesh
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Tan Trigonometery
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the tangent function and its approximation to the variable x as x approaches 0, specifically in the context of radians versus degrees. Participants explore the mathematical reasoning behind why tan(x) is approximately equal to x for small values of x, including various approaches such as linear approximations, Taylor series, and geometric interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that for small values of x, tan(x) can be approximated by x, similar to sin(x) being approximated by x and cos(x) by 1.
  • Others propose that the approximation can be derived using the first derivative of the tangent function at x=0.
  • A participant mentions the Taylor series expansion of tan(x) and notes that higher-order terms become significant for larger values of x, thus affecting the approximation.
  • Some participants question why the approximation holds true only for radians and not for degrees, providing calculations to illustrate the differences.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of tangent in terms of a right triangle and how this relates to the arc length in a unit circle.
  • Several participants engage in a technical debate regarding the implications of limits and the nature of approximations, with some asserting that the statements made are not equivalent.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of the condition that the remainder term in the approximation must diminish appropriately as x approaches 0.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the approximation and its validity in different contexts (radians vs. degrees). While some agree on the general principle that tan(x) approximates x for small x, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nuances of the mathematical statements and their equivalences.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the behavior of the tangent function and the conditions under which the approximations hold. The dependence on radians versus degrees is a significant point of contention, and the mathematical steps involved in deriving the approximations are not fully resolved.

rishi kesh
Messages
35
Reaction score
3
Hi! In one of my textbook i saw the relation tan(x) = x where x is very small value and expressed in radians. I want to know why its true and how it actually works. I would appreciate someone's help :smile:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Did you draw a sketch? A small part of the circle can be approximated by a straight line.
It is similar to the approximations ##\cos(x) \approx 1## and ##\sin(x) \approx x## for small x, and you can derive the approximation of the tangent that way as well.
 
rishi kesh said:
Hi! In one of my textbook i saw the relation tan(x) = x where x is very small value and expressed in radians. I want to know why its true and how it actually works. I would appreciate someone's help :smile:
One way to look at it is to take it as the linear approximation by the first derivative. We have ##\left. \dfrac{d}{dx}\right|_{x=0}\tan(x)=(1+\tan^2(x))|_{x=0}=1## which means that the tangent function is locally approximated by ##x \longmapsto (\tan(x))_0' \cdot x =1 \cdot x##.

Another way is to use the Taylor series at ##x=0## which is ##\tan(x) = x + O(x^3)\,.##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest
mfb said:
Did you draw a sketch? A small part of the circle can be approximated by a straight line.
It is similar to the approximations ##\cos(x) \approx 1## and ##\sin(x) \approx x## for small x, and you can derive the approximation of the tangent that way as well.
But why is it true for radians only? I solved on my calculator and this is what i saw :
Tan (0.12) = 0.12 (where 0.12 is radians)
But when x is in degrees
Tan(0.12) = 0.00209
What is happening here?please explain.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rishi kesh said:
But why is it true for radians only? I solved on my calculator and this is what i saw :
Tan (0.12) = 0.12 (where 0.12 is radians)
But when x is in degrees
Tan(0.12) = 0.00209
What is happening here?please explain.
##\tan 0.12 \approx \tan 7° \approx [x + O(x^3)]_{at \, 0} = 0.12 \pm 0.002## which is close to ##0.12##.
##\tan 0.12° \approx \tan 0° \approx [x + O(x^3)]_{at \, 0} = 0 \pm 0## which is close to ##0.00209##.

You simply compare a value ##0.12## with its ##60-##fold value. But both are still in a very good approximation to ##\tan (x) \approx x##. Radians are the natural unit here, degree more because of historical reasons, habit and clarity for humans. The approximation ##\tan (x) \approx x## requires radians if taken numerically disregarding the units.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: rishi kesh
rishi kesh said:
But why is it true for radians only?
The series expansion of ##\tan x## is ##\tan x = x + \frac{1}{3}x^3 + \frac{2}{15}x^5+\cdots##, where the powers of ##x## get bigger and bigger. This means for any value of ##x > 1##, the higher power terms in the series will contribute proportionally more than the lower terms. So the approximation only really works well when ##x\ll 1##, because then the higher order terms die out quickly. If you use degrees instead of radians, then you're effectively using ##d = \frac{180}{\pi}x## and calculating ##\tan d## instead of ##\tan x##. Since ##\frac{180}{\pi}\approx 57.2##, you should expect to get ##\tan d \approx \frac{1}{57.2}d##. Doing a quick calculation:
$$0.12°\times \frac{1}{57.2} \approx 0.002098$$
in line with what you would expect.
 
rishi kesh said:
Hi! In one of my textbook i saw the relation tan(x) = x where x is very small value and expressed in radians.
No reputable book would say that tan(x) = x. The proper relationship is that ##\tan(x) \approx x## for values of x near 0 (and in radians).
 
rishi kesh said:
But why is it true for radians only?
Radians are the natural units for angles.

If you take a circle with radius 1, then the circumference is ##2\pi##. And there are also ##2\pi## radians in a revolution. So, the arc length of a circle radius 1 is equal to the angle in radians. The tangent function is defined as the ratio of lengths of a right triangle ##\frac{opposite}{adjacent}##. If you take a right triangle with a small angle, the length of the opposite leg is very close to the arc length of the circle next to it, and the length of the adjacent leg is very close to the radius of the circle. So, the tangent is very close to the angle in radians.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Chestermiller, FactChecker and olivermsun
One can show using the L'Hopital's rule that
<br /> \lim_{x\to 0} \frac{\tan x}{x} = \lim _{x\to 0} \frac{1}{\cos ^2x} = 1<br />
This immediately implies ##\tan x = x + \alpha (x) ##, where ##\alpha (x)\to 0 ## as ##x\to 0 ##. In other words, the closer you get to ##0 ##, the smaller the difference between ##\tan x ## and ##x ## becomes.
 
  • #10
nuuskur said:
This immediately implies ##\tan x = x + \alpha (x) ##, where ##\alpha (x)\to 0 ## as ##x\to 0 ##. In other words, the closer you get to ##0 ##, the smaller the difference between ##\tan x ## and ##x ## becomes.
That is a much weaker statement than the ratio. It would also apply for ##2x=x+\alpha(x)##, for example, but approximating 2x as x is usually a bad idea.

It implies ##\tan x = x(1 + \alpha (x)) ##, where ##\alpha (x)\to 0 ## as ##x\to 0 ##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuantumQuest and nuuskur
  • #11
Our statements are equivalent, although I like yours more as it is more explicit in a way.
 
  • #12
The statements are not equivalent. Your second statement just says tan(x) and x have the same limit for x->0, that is a much weaker statement.

The ratio is a strong statement, my reply was commenting on the remark afterwards only.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fresh_42
  • #13
If ##\tan x = x + \alpha (x)##, then ##\frac{\tan x}{x} = 1 + o(x) ##. Conversely, if ##\lim_{x\to 0} \frac{\tan x}{x} = 1 ##, then ##\tan x = x(1+\alpha (x)) =: x + \hat{\alpha} (x) ##. We just label things differently, it seems.

Besides, if their limits are the same in the viewed process, the ratio statement follows (in this case).
 
  • #14
nuuskur said:
If ##\tan x = x + \alpha (x)##, then ##\frac{\tan x}{x} = 1 + o(x) ##.
That argument does not work in general, see my example with 2x instead of tan(x).
Conversely, if ##\lim_{x\to 0} \frac{\tan x}{x} = 1 ##, then ##\tan x = x(1+\alpha (x)) =: x + \hat{\alpha} (x) ##. We just label things differently, it seems.
That direction is fine but that is a much weaker statement on the right side if you just require ##\hat \alpha(x)## to go to 0.

What you need to make the two statements equivalent is the condition that ##\displaystyle \frac{\alpha(x)}{x} \to 0## instead of ##\alpha(x) \to 0##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nuuskur
  • #15
You are correct. I should have made my remainder term more explicit, hence my remark why I like yours more.
 
  • #16
nuuskur said:
You are correct. I should have made my remainder term more explicit, hence my remark why I like yours more.
Your mistake goes deeper than sloppiness, because your concept of a (linear) approximation by the first derivative missed the point. It is essential that the normed direction tends towards zero not just the remainder term. We have ##\tan(0+v) = \tan(0) + \tan'(0)\cdot v + r(v)## and ##\lim_{v \to 0}\dfrac{r(v)}{||v||} =0##. This is the reason why @mfb's counterexample works, if this is not the case. You cannot skip the denominator.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nuuskur
  • #17
Khashishi said:
Radians are the natural units for angles.

If you take a circle with radius 1, then the circumference is ##2\pi##. And there are also ##2\pi## radians in a revolution. So, the arc length of a circle radius 1 is equal to the angle in radians. The tangent function is defined as the ratio of lengths of a right triangle ##\frac{opposite}{adjacent}##. If you take a right triangle with a small angle, the length of the opposite leg is very close to the arc length of the circle next to it, and the length of the adjacent leg is very close to the radius of the circle. So, the tangent is very close to the angle in radians.
This is the explanation i actually needed. But i want you to extend it a little bit, hopefully you will clear my doubt(please check my attachment). I will appreciate further reply from you :)
 

Attachments

  • 1522847373700-707240553.jpg
    1522847373700-707240553.jpg
    22.2 KB · Views: 574
  • #18
rishi kesh said:
This is the explanation i actually needed. But i want you to extend it a little bit, hopefully you will clear my doubt(please check my attachment). I will appreciate further reply from you :)
The photo you posted is the reason that we discourage images of work.
  1. The image is unreadable because it is so small.
  2. The image is rotated, making it difficult to read even if it were larger.
 
  • #19
rishi kesh said:
This is the explanation i actually needed. But i want you to extend it a little bit, hopefully you will clear my doubt(please check my attachment). I will appreciate further reply from you :)
You left out a PB in the length of the arc. The arc length should be AB = x PB.
In my example, I used a radius of 1, so PB = 1. But you don't have to make that assumption.
 
  • #20
Khashishi said:
You left out a PB in the length of the arc. The arc length should be AB = x PB.
In my example, I used a radius of 1, so PB = 1. But you don't have to make that assumption.
Thanks for that
 

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K