Why the Inconsistent Use of Δ in Physics?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Bullwinckle
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Physics
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the inconsistent use of the symbols Δ (delta) and d in physics, particularly in the context of momentum and energy equations. Participants explore the implications of using these symbols in different scenarios, including introductory physics and engineering applications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that d denotes a derivative or an infinitesimally small difference, while Δ represents a finite difference, suggesting a distinction in their usage.
  • It is proposed that Δ is used in conservation of energy formulas because energy itself lacks inherent meaning, and only changes in energy are significant.
  • One participant questions whether the use of Δ in equations like ΔL = mv1 - mv2 is intended to prepare students for practical problem-solving involving finite time differences.
  • Another participant emphasizes that different problems may require different approaches, and that changes in quantities are often not infinitesimal, as illustrated by the example of a block sliding down a frictionless incline.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reasons behind the use of Δ versus d, and there is no consensus on whether the inconsistency is beneficial or merely a source of confusion.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the potential ambiguity in the definitions of Δ and d, and the context-dependent nature of their application in various physics problems.

Bullwinckle
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Hello,

Sometimes in introductory physics, I see this:

After defining P as the momentum, we show: dP/dt = F

Then, later, I see this

ΔL = mv1 - mv2

So my question is really simple: WHY is there no consistency? Why do we sometimes use the Δ symbol? Is there something about how the definition is being applied (small change but not infinitesimally small), that makes the books switch back to Δ

I see it here, too (where U is the potential energy in a non-dispersive system):

ΔK.E. + ΔU = 0

Is there an APPLIED (as, say, in engineering) advantage to using the above, and not: K.E. + U = constant which, as I see it, is more theoretically precise.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The d denotes the derivative. In a less rigorous sense, it usually denotes an infinitesimally small difference, as opposed to delta, which is any finite difference. The deltas are used in the conservation of energy formula because energy itself has not inherent meaning--it is the change of energy that's important. It makes no sense to say K.E + U = 0. Using the deltas tells us that there is no change in the total energy of the system (some of it might have converted between forms, but the total change is 0).
 
axmls said:
The deltas are used in the conservation of energy formula because energy itself has not inherent meaning--it is the change of energy that's important. It makes no sense to say K.E + U = 0. Using the deltas tells us that there is no change in the total energy of the system (some of it might have converted between forms, but the total change is 0).

Thank you
 
axmls said:
The d denotes the derivative. In a less rigorous sense, it usually denotes an infinitesimally small difference, as opposed to delta, which is any finite difference. The deltas are used in the conservation of energy formula because energy itself has not inherent meaning--it is the change of energy that's important. It makes no sense to say K.E + U = 0. Using the deltas tells us that there is no change in the total energy of the system (some of it might have converted between forms, but the total change is 0).

Oh, one more thing...

Are you saying that books use this:

ΔL = mv1 - mv2

Simply to prepare students to solve problems over a finite time difference that is not infinitesimally small?

So, here, the Δ is being used for a PRACTICAL purpose?
 
We're often concerned with the change in quantities--not necessarily infinitesimal changes. The change in energy would be the obvious one. These aren't (usually infinitesimal). For instance, if we slide a block down a frictionless incline, we may be interested in the change in kinetic energy between the time at which the block is on top and the time at which it's on the bottom.

So really, different problems require different approaches. It's sometimes the case that we end up taking a limit as these differences go to 0, in which case we end up with a derivative or integral (somewhat non-rigorously), but again, this all depends on context.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
11K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
12K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K