Will Gas Cool Down in Deep Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the cooling behavior of gas in deep space, exploring concepts of heat, temperature, and the effects of the surrounding environment on molecular motion. Participants examine whether gas can cool down in the absence of gravity and radiation, and the implications of uniform versus non-uniform motion in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that heat is related to the motion of molecules, questioning whether gas will cool down in deep space and why that might occur.
  • Others argue that the temperature of a gas does not solely depend on the speed of its molecules, suggesting that different gases can have the same temperature despite differing molecular speeds.
  • There is a discussion about whether the gas can radiate energy and how that might affect its cooling in deep space.
  • Some participants challenge the idea that uniform motion is unaffected by temperature, questioning how motion is influenced by the surrounding environment.
  • Questions arise regarding the definition of contact and whether the gas or the jar it is contained in would cool down, as well as the implications of absolute zero temperature on motion.
  • One participant emphasizes that empty space does not have a temperature and that the motion of particles is not influenced by the absence of forces.
  • There is a distinction made between heat and temperature, with some participants noting that adding heat to different substances does not guarantee the same temperature change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the relationship between heat, temperature, and the cooling of gas in deep space. There is no consensus on whether gas will cool down or how the concepts of motion and temperature interact.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved definitions of contact and the nature of heat versus temperature, as well as assumptions about the effects of deep space on molecular motion.

Naveen3456
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A mass of gas has its molecules moving. (Say in a jar)

Another mass of gas has its molecules moving faster. This gas is hotter than the first one.

So, heat is motion of molecules.

Now, I take this mass of gas into deep space devoid of any gravitation.

My questions are,

1. Will this gas cool down. If yes, why?

Let me give my detailed insight/conjecture.

A body moving in uniform motion does not get affected by the extremely low temperature of deep space and continues its 'motion' unabated.

Each molecule is in motion, even if not uniform motion.
So, if the gas cools down, why does deep space affect the motion of molecules?

2. Does deep space know the difference between uniform and non-uniform motion?
 
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Naveen3456 said:
Another mass of gas has its molecules moving faster. This gas is hotter than the first one.
Not necessarily. If it has a different gas (with lighter particles), the temperature could be equal or lower.

So, heat is motion of molecules.
Heat is related to the motion of molecules.

1. Will this gas cool down. If yes, why?
Does it have contact to the environment? Can it radiate, does it receive radiation?

A body moving in uniform motion does not get affected by the extremely low temperature of deep space and continues its 'motion' unabated.
The uniform motion of a large object as a whole has nothing to do with its temperature.

So, if the gas cools down, why does deep space affect the motion of molecules?
The gas can emit electromagnetic radiation (blackbody radiation) and cool down.

2. Does deep space know the difference between uniform and non-uniform motion?
Space does not "know" anything.
 
mfb said:
Not necessarily. If it has a different gas (with lighter particles), the temperature could be equal or lower.

Thanks for the insight.



mfb said:
Heat is related to the motion of molecules.

Plz explain how is heat 'not' motion of molecules but 'related to' motion of molecules.



mfb said:
Does it have contact to the environment? Can it radiate, does it receive radiation?

How to define contact?

The molecules of the gas are colliding with the molecules of the jar. The molecules of gas have forces of attraction and repulsion operating between them. The molecules of the jar are also oscillating and vibrating. In fact molecules of jar are in immediate contact with the space.

Would molecules of jar also slow down?

Would the space that is inside the atoms/nuclei of the jar also cool down and in any way affect the motion of atoms/molecules/nucleons of the jar/gas?



mfb said:
The uniform motion of a large object as a whole has nothing to do with its temperature.

When does an object turn large? when we consider 2 atoms/molecules or more than 2?

Suppose the large object enters the area of space having absolute zero temperature. Will its motion still remain unaffected by the temperature around it?

Suppose a single CO2 molecule is moving in deep space away from any soured of gravity or radiation. What would be the scenario? Would the motion of oxygen atoms around the carbon atom slow down?

Can't a single molecule of CO2 be taken as a large object when there is no object nearby with which to compare this CO2 molecule.



mfb said:
Space does not "know" anything.

Then how does space/nature see to it that the moment force is removed 'only' uniform motion results without fail.


Do take pains to answer my questions. This is really a laborious job. Thanks in advance.
 
Naveen3456 said:
Plz explain how is heat 'not' motion of molecules but 'related to' motion of molecules.
An apple is not a tree, but it is related to a tree.
More about heat

How to define contact?
Some way to exchange thermal energy.

The molecules of the gas are colliding with the molecules of the jar. The molecules of gas have forces of attraction and repulsion operating between them. The molecules of the jar are also oscillating and vibrating. In fact molecules of jar are in immediate contact with the space.

Would molecules of jar also slow down?
If "gas+jar" cool down, sure.

Would the space that is inside the atoms/nuclei of the jar also cool down and in any way affect the motion of atoms/molecules/nucleons of the jar/gas?
Empty space does not have a temperature.


When does an object turn large? when we consider 2 atoms/molecules or more than 2?
When you consider all molecules in an object, independent of the size of the object itself. Apart from that, all objects with ordered motion are "large" in that respect.

Suppose the large object enters the area of space having absolute zero temperature. Will its motion still remain unaffected by the temperature around it?
Space does not have a temperature. The motion of the particle is always unaffected by empty space.

Suppose a single CO2 molecule is moving in deep space away from any soured of gravity or radiation. What would be the scenario? Would the motion of oxygen atoms around the carbon atom slow down?
No. Why do you think it could?
Note that a single CO2 molecule does not even have a temperature.

Space does not "know" anything.
Then how does space/nature see to it that the moment force is removed 'only' uniform motion results without fail.
I don't understand that question.

Do take pains to answer my questions. This is really a laborious job. Thanks in advance.
I get the impression that you should start with the basics (with a textbook, not here), as I guess you have some fundamental misunderstandings, and it is impossible to resolve them if you just keep asking random questions.
 
mfb said:
An apple is not a tree, but it is related to a tree.
More about heat

Some way to exchange thermal energy.

If "gas+jar" cool down, sure.

Empty space does not have a temperature.


When you consider all molecules in an object, independent of the size of the object itself. Apart from that, all objects with ordered motion are "large" in that respect.

Space does not have a temperature. The motion of the particle is always unaffected by empty space.

No. Why do you think it could?
Note that a single CO2 molecule does not even have a temperature.

I don't understand that question.

I get the impression that you should start with the basics (with a textbook, not here), as I guess you have some fundamental misunderstandings, and it is impossible to resolve them if you just keep asking random questions.

Thanks for your responses.

But I am afraid to say that you haven't explained anything nor tried to do so.

It seems to me that either you are irritated by such questions or you consider it below your standard to deal in such questions.

BTW, I have studied all these concepts till 12th class from textbooks.

I am under the impression that people on this forum can explain basics more lucidly that a textbook.

Thanks again.
 
There is nothing wrong about mfb answers and I agree with his opinion that you probably have some fundamental misunderstandings about what the heat is. But it is difficult if not impossible to pinpoint where the problem lies just by reading your questions.
 
Naveen3456 said:
A mass of gas has its molecules moving.
Another mass of gas has its molecules moving faster. This gas is hotter than the first one.

Not necessarily, and I think you may be confusing "heat" and "temperature". "Hotter" does not mean "has more heat", it means "has a higher temperature".

One way to see that heat and temperature are not the same is to consider that if you add the same amount of heat to the same amount of different substances, you may not get the same temperature change (google for "specific heat" to see what I mean).
 
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