News Will Israel back us if we attack Iran?

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The discussion revolves around whether Israel would support the U.S. in a potential military action against Iran, with many participants noting that Iran poses a significant threat to Israel. Some argue that Israel has its own issues to manage and may not engage in a conflict, recalling how the U.S. previously worked to keep Israel out of the Gulf Wars. Others highlight the complexities of military action, including the potential backlash and the lack of solid evidence regarding Iran's nuclear capabilities. The conversation also touches on the historical context of Iraq's missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War and the implications of Iran's nuclear ambitions. Ultimately, the consensus leans towards skepticism about immediate military action against Iran without clear justification.
  • #61
Nothing000 said:
Don't you see, these people hate you. I have no idea why you are deffending them.

No they don't. We have plenty of Iranians living here in Sweden, so I know. It's because of patetic attitudes like yours that US is not very popular nowadays.
When did I defend Iran's nuclear program?
 
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  • #62
I have got to go to school. It has been great chatting with you guys. I will talk to you later.:smile:
 
  • #63
Nothing000 said:
I am not racist. The fact is that extremist muslims hate any other religion or way of life. Can you dispute that?

And that is not the case among extremist christians (for instance in US) or extremist buddhists, or extremist hindus, or...
Point is, you're a victim of the anti-muslim propaganda.
 
  • #64
Which Grade are you in?
 
  • #65
EL said:
No they don't. We have plenty of Iranians living here in Sweden, so I know. It's because of patetic attitudes like yours that US is not very popular nowadays.
When did I defend the Iran's nuclear program?

Extremist muslims do hate you. "Progressive" muslims do not. All I am saying is that these non-extremists need to stand up and let there voice be heard more, instead of allowing the extremists represent their religion.
 
  • #66
What has that got to do with Iran's nuclear program?
 
  • #67
We have all made valid points. This has been a wonderful discussion. But I have to go to school. I will talk to you all later.
 
  • #68
Nothing000 said:
Extremist muslims do hate you. "Progressive" muslims do not. All I am saying is that these non-extremists need to stand up and let there voice be heard more, instead of allowing the extremists represent their religion.

Completely agree. But when did you say that? I thought you wanted to "wipe them out"?
 
  • #69
Anttech said:
What has that got to do with Iran's nuclear program?

Because the reason Iran can not be trusted with a nuclear program is because they are a theocracy that supports the extremist muslim philosophy.
 
  • #70
I think Nothing000 post are a perfect example of what the US media has done to American people, Nothing000 is a reflection of the avergare uninformed american who "Make up his mind" from the mainstream media.
 
  • #71
EL said:
Completely agree. So?

So, what? That was my point.

Got to go to school. Talk to you later.
 
  • #72
Why do you guys hate america? I just don't get it. If you answer this question I will have to read it later, and respond then. Because I am going to be late for school.
 
  • #73
Nothing000 said:
So, what? That was my point.

Got to go to school. Talk to you later.

See my edited version.
 
  • #74
Actually I think Nothing000 posts are a perfect example of someone with little to no knowledge about what there are talking about, ranting hatred in a misinformed extreemly young and naive way! It can happen in any place in the world, hatred has no place, and what we need is some UNDERSTANDING (and EDUCATION!)! Of course the US media doesn't help.. But this is supposed to be an accedemic type forum!
 
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  • #75
Nothing000 said:
Why do you guys hate america? I just don't get it. If you answer this question I will have to read it later, and respond then. Because I am going to be late for school.

When did I say I hate america?
I hate some people in america yes, but I hate some in Sweden too...
You're putting words in my mouth I have never said.
 
  • #76
EL said:
When did I say I hate america?
I hate some people in america yes, but I hate some in Sweden too...
You're putting words in my mouth I have never said.

You didnt, don't worry I think its self-evident...
 
  • #77
I think Nothing000 is mainly driven by fear.
Fear has always been a substantial ingredience in US society.
 
  • #78
Anttech said:
You didnt, don't worry I think its self-evident...

What is self-evident?
 
  • #79
EL said:
What is self-evident?

That you didnt say that you hate America...
 
  • #80
Anttech said:
That you didnt say that you hate America...

Good. For a while I thought you ment it was self-evident I hated america although I didn't say it!:-p
To make it clear: I do not hate americans in general!
 
  • #81
I do hate america... 's Goverment...

That is another trick the media uses, acording to them people around the world hate america for no reason. When actualy everybody hate america's government for they foreing policy.
 
  • #82
Burnsys said:
I do hate america... 's Goverment...

That is another trick the media uses, acording to them people around the world hate america for no reason. When actualy everybody hate america's government for they foreing policy.

Hopefully ol' Bush will be somewhat hobbled after November this year.
 
  • #83
russ_watters said:
SD, it has been all over the news. It's the very reason we are having this conversation - why the governments are having the rhetoric-war.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=1488020

Sorry but I know they are enriching uranium I meant to say for nukes. I have read reports by the IAEA about the enrichment facilities in Iraq, it is fairly common knowledge and has been for a while that they are enriching Uranium or at the very least that they had facilities to do so which is pretty much the same thing, this is why the whole thing kicked off in the first place, sorry about that:redface:
 
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  • #84
Nothing000 said:
Extremist muslims do hate you. "Progressive" muslims do not. All I am saying is that these non-extremists need to stand up and let there voice be heard more, instead of allowing the extremists represent their religion.

Oddly enough due to the internet in Iran, many Iranians are big fans of western and in particular US culture, there is more hatred on your side than on the other I would imagine, just because some minority voice starts indiscretely shouting doesn't mean he represents a whole country. Iran is a democracy of sorts, but a religous one, OK it's not the same as a two party system but at least you get to chose which religous leaders you want representing your country. This sort of one sided uninformed sounding off is not really productive. Do some research into the subject before you judge a religion a race or a whole people. I really hope that this sort of opinion based on one sided media is not common in the US.

Oh and for your information, the only media I tend to watch regularly ATM is yours on forums like this, I rarely get to see the BBC ATM. Which would make me a wolf amongst sheep, as I do not subscribe to it wholly without digging deeper.
 
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  • #85
Note to all: Before posting further replies in this thread, please remind yourselves of the P&WA forum guidelines, especially with regard to keeping discussion CIVIL. This thread has been pruned, and further need to moderate will result in it being locked, and those whose posts necessitate that moderation will take a 3-day vacation from PF.
 
  • #86
[deleted - You can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution, cyrus. -Russ]
 
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  • #87
Schrodinger's Dog said:
Sorry but I know they are enriching uranium I meant to say for nukes. I have read reports by the IAEA about the enrichment facilities in Iraq, it is fairly common knowledge and has been for a while that they are enriching Uranium or at the very least that they had facilities to do so which is pretty much the same thing, this is why the whole thing kicked off in the first place, sorry about that:redface:
No prob - the question of whether or not they intend to acquire actual nuclear weapons is obviously much more complicated. It requires sifting through the rhetoric to decipher their real intentions, which can't ever be an exact science.

So the relevant questions then become:

1. What do you (or Bush, or the UNSC, or Israel's new leader) think the odds are that Iran will acquire or will attempt to acquire nuclear weapons?
2. If they acquire nuclear weapons, would they be willing/likely to use them?
3. Based on the above, would it be prudent to stop them?
4. If yes, how far should we go to stop them?
 
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  • #88
1. What do you (or Bush, or the UNSC, or Israel's new leader) think the odds are that Iran will acquire or will attempt to acquire nuclear weapons?
2. If they acquire nuclear weapons, would they be willing/likely to use them?
3. Based on the above, would it be prudent to stop them?
4. If yes, how far should we go to stop them?

I'll take a pop at that :)

1. Iran will eventually make nuclear weapons.. But not in the foreseeable future IMHO
2. No they wouldn't use them, if they had no need to use them. Ie I don't think they would be the aggressors. They have no need to. The only war I could see happening there would be an inward war of factions, ie cival war.. And I don't think Nukes would be used in this situation.
3. No its not prudent to stop them, nothing but pain and blood will come from fighting Iran, the world needs peace not more Wars between the so called "west" and ME
4. see above
 
  • #89
russ_watters said:
No prob - the question of whether or not they intend to acquire actual nuclear weapons is obviously much more complicated. It requires sifting through the rhetoric to decipher their real intentions, which can't ever be an exact science.

So the relevant questions then become:

1. What do you (or Bush, or the UNSC, or Israel's new leader) think the odds are that Iran will acquire or will attempt to acquire nuclear weapons?
2. If they acquire nuclear weapons, would they be willing/likely to use them?
3. Based on the above, would it be prudent to stop them?
4. If yes, how far should we go to stop them?
1. Considering Israel, Pakistan, and India have nuclear weapons, I'd say the odds were good that Iran would attempt to develop nuclear weapons. It'll take a few years, but once they're able to create fuel for nuclear power plants, the leap to nuclear weapons is almost more a matter of quantity than a leap in technology - if they also develop a means to deliver nuclear weapons.

2. If they developed nuclear weapons and a reliable method of delivering them, they would use the threat of them. They'd be unlikely to actually fire them, but having nuclear weapons would give them greater freedom to act in the Middle East region - the possession of nuclear weapons would prevent other countries from punishing them with military force.

3. You don't stop knowledge or technology. You slow it down. Any action to slow progress needs to be accompanied by some other long term solution. This is another benefit of acquiring nuclear power. A country becomes a 'partner' in international relations that has to be bargained with instead of a third world country that can be pushed around. The major powers use trade agreements that benefit the new nuclear power enough that the new power can't afford to wage war against the major powers, anymore. It's almost like striking it rich and getting to sit next to the owner of your old company at the elite country club.

4a. A few 'pinprick' strikes, even at particularly key locations, just slows the pace of progress. The hardware has to be replaced, but the knowledge and experience have already been obtained.

4b. Instead of buying off the new power, you install a new, friendlier government. Installing a new shah has gone out of fashion. Installing a democracy is the new rave, in spite of the fact that the new Middle East democracies seem to put a spotlight on the cultural differences between the Middle East and the West.

4c. Buying them off with increased trade would do a better job of reducing differences between the cultures. Al Jazeera has commercials, the same as American TV, and McDonalds, Coca Cola, et al, can slowly rot Middle Eastern culture from within* (sounds cynical, but, from Islamic fundamentalists point of view, this is the big problem with the West, regardless of the rhetoric about Israel, etc).

Aside from the problems inherent in option 4, the 'who decides' part is the most unsettling of all. I don't relish having the Bush administration decide or implement anything of this magnitude. It would be better if either the UN took the lead or the problem were pushed along to the next President.

------------------------------------------------------------------

* - How often has a foreign country stepped in, taken a local product (such as a favorite drink), and turned that country's own local product into a national, profitable product, or even a product for export?

I know Coca Cola tried this in Russia with one of their traditional drinks, but Coca Cola had to come up with one version of the drink for the whole country. Traditionally, there had been a lot of variation in the drink from one locality to the other, so Coca Cola's version didn't get very high reviews from locals - most thought it was a poor imitation of their locality's particular version.

Most used to have problems even getting that far, since it usually seems more efficient to make an already existing product more appealing to the new market since the foreign company may have little insight into the new market's culture. It's hard to believe multinational corporations still haven't made much progress in this area, but you don't hear much about it.
 
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  • #90
russ_watters said:
So the relevant questions then become:

1. What do you (or Bush, or the UNSC, or Israel's new leader) think the odds are that Iran will acquire or will attempt to acquire nuclear weapons?
2. If they acquire nuclear weapons, would they be willing/likely to use them?
3. Based on the above, would it be prudent to stop them?
4. If yes, how far should we go to stop them?

Good questions russ. I'll give them a try:

1. That's a tough one. According to the Iranian government's behaviour one is easily lead to the conclution that they will attempt to acquire nukes. On the other hand, if they really wanted to, would they behave as they currently are doing? I don't have a good answer.
But what I think is important is to realize there are cultural differences which may be hard to understand for us westerns. I think "pride" is a keyword. Like it was for Saddam Hussein who more or less acted like he had something to hide, when there in reality were no WMD's.

2. If they really are out for getting nukes, and actually also succeeds with that, I'm afraid that, with the current government, my guess will be yes.

3. We should definitely stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. (Which we should for any other country aslo.)

4. Important is to not do anything rash. Only as an absolutely last way out, and with waterproof evidences, there should be an open attack.
I don't think another war based on "false intelligence reports" (to be kind) is a good idea...
UN support for any military action is very important.
What should be done immediately is to support the rebellious groups in Iran and get rid of the current government. I think that with a strong support it could be achieved quite soon.
 
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