Windows freezing up for anybody else?

[rbelli1]

Hibernation is never reliable after updates,

I found this out the hard way.

It really does sound like you'd be better of re-installing the core OS, and setup some virtual machines for your dev environments, it will take some time but, in my opinion you will end up with a much more manageable solution.

Probably. But to solve a once a month or so wait of a few minutes I will just live with it for now.

Stability is fine as long as no updates are pending. Another Windows 10 foible I have found is that when it needs a reboot is needs a *reboot*. Shutting down then starting up does not work like in 7.

BoB

 

[rbelli1]

I sounds as if that didn't get undone when i reverted this machine from 10 back to 7.

Fortunately if you undo those changes they will stay undone in 7.

BoB

 

[rootone]

If you don't like the way Windows is going, there is always the option of a Linux ( or even Apple),
Personally I think Windows had it's good moments and some bad ones.
My latest automatic update (Win10) made my PC seem like totally burned out and dead until I turned off the power for two minutes, then it was OK.

 

[jim hardy]

If you don't like the way Windows is going, there is always the option of a Linux ( or even Apple),

That's looking better every day.

Task Manager shows sixty entries of 'esrv.exe' running
and seventy of 'conhost.exe'

Complete scans by Security Essentials and Malware Bytes both report no malware found

that can't be right...

 

[I like Serena]

Wow. How did you achieve all of that!

It should be clear that you shouldn't have so many instances of either esrv.exe or conhost.exe.
I don't even recognize them.
Did they nestle themselves into one of the registry entries I mentioned before or some such? As a result of installing some kind of application?

Anyway, the first thing I'd do is to right click one of them and try to kill it - just to see what happens.

 

[rootone]

Apparently esrv.exe is an non essential process which is not a part of windows, it's a power monitoring process added to Sony PCs.
https://www.file.net/process/esrv.exe.html

 

[I like Serena]

Just looked up 'esrv.exe' and the first hit said:

OK, after some reading you are correct this is not a Sony only issue, that service is also contained in a lot of Intel Software Products, please try this:

1. Go to Control Panel (accessible by right clicking your Start Menu button if you are not on the Creators Update, if you are, type Control Panel into Cortana Search)
2. Open Programs and Features.
3. Look for Intel Driver Update Utility, if you find it, uninstall it
4. Reboot

Didn't you say you installed some Intel driver?
I trust products of Microsoft and Intel most, but... maybe we've got to get rid of this particular thingy...

 

[Idyit]

I agree, uninstall the Intel Management stuff, it's useless and consumes resources for no reason.
After that if those processes are still there you can use msconfig to disable the all startup processes and then slowly re enable them to figure out what's causing it.
It's time consuming but will help diagnose any issues you've created by installing 3rd party software or dev environments.

Like I said in my original post the DELL implementations of the INTEL rapid storage hard drive interface is buggy to say the least, and it wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturer implementations are buggy as well.

The DELL machines I have had problems with exhibited the slow/non responsive behaviour and the only fix was to switch the machines to a pure AHCI setup.

But you must enable the AHCI drivers in the OS before you reboot the machine because Windows disables them if they are not used for boot speed reasons.

If you don't enable them before reboot, the OS will never boot again and the windows repair will only make the problem worse, I found that switching the INTEL Rapid Storage back on in the BIOS didn't help either, and I had to rebuild the first machine from scratch so be very careful if you attempt this and make a backup before you start !.

 

[jim hardy]

Didn't you say you installed some Intel driver?

I think i remember doing that and it cured some symptom.

I just uninstalled Intel Utility Update Driver and those two no longer show in Task Manager,
and it's not so sluggish

if past is any indication it'll be okay for a couple hours then something else will happen.

Windows Update set to NEVER
Restored to a mid -september restore point a couple days ago

Laptop is in shop getting rid of Windows 10 and fresh install of Windows 7 Pro(thanks to a PF friend) , new battery and more ram. It has been pretty dependable.
When it comes will do something about this desktop.
Maybe it needs more RAM ? How much do you guys find being used, nothing running but Firefox on PF.?

 

[Idyit]

That looks about right, windows tends to allocate about half the available memory for processes, but 2 gig is simply not enough in todays environments.

4 is the max for 32 bit OS's, 8 is a good working size for 64 bit OS's.

I've got 16 gig installed and my machine tends to run at about 6 gigabytes all the time.

 

[rootone]

nothing running but Firefox on PF.?

It's showing you have plenty of spare RAM for running just Firefox.
No need to add more RAM unless you are planning to run other apps as well.

 

[I like Serena]

Yep. I'm a bit surprised by the physical amount of memory of 2 GiB - low as it is - but it doesn't appear to be a problem based on the graphs and numbers you've shown. :)

 

[Idyit]

Use the resource monitor if you want to see what happens with limited memory, you'll be getting page faults constantly.
Firefox running on my machine without surfing to anywhere uses 256 megabytes of memory.
Windows will always try and keep as much memory free as possible for performance reasons, and it pages virtually everything in a limited memory setup.

 

[jim hardy]

Thanks folks - with esrv and conhost running multiple copies all memory was used up .
This machine is several years old now. i think i got it Summer of 2010 and 2G seemed a lot back then.

So it looks as if uninstalling Intel Update whatever it was cured part of my problem
and a few more memory sticks should help

who knows - might even let Windows check for updates again, or do you think not ?

I made sure Remote Registry Access is disabled. Am getting paranoid .

Thanks again , you have been tremendous help.

I'll try to get some memory sticks tomorrrow.

"My rig's a little old, but that don't mean she's slow." _{Dave Dudley}

 

[jim hardy]

Use the resource monitor if you want to see what happens with limited memory, you'll be getting page faults constantly.

Much of it is Greek to me
have an Acrobat document open at the moment as you see

Seriously guys, THANKS .

old jim

 

[Idyit]

No worries, and yes updates are worthy all the vulnerabilities that are patched on a regular basis makes it very worthwhile.
It's the hard fault graph that's of interest, you'll find on low memory systems it goes through the roof everytime you try to do something, and that means memory swapping to the hdd so the OS can do something.

 

[jim hardy]

that means memory swapping to the hdd so the OS can do something.

I created a virtual memory space 4G i think, on the second hard drive D in addition to the smaller one on C.
That was on premise it might lessen latency during seeks-- when one drive is busy OS can use the other?

Seemed to help for a while.

Running well right now. Will see what tomorrow brings.

 

[Idyit]

Yes that is the optimal setup, but at the end of the day more memory is the best answer.

 

[rootone]

see what tomorrow brings.

Light entertainment.

 

[rbelli1]

esrv.exe is a Sony thing. Complain to them if it is causing problems. Conhost.exe should rarely run so if it is constantly running you have a problem with some other software doing something wrong.

Amongst the problems that Microsoft has I don't believe that either of these things are their fault.

Conhost.exe on constantly would indicate some software misbehaving. Whether it is malware or just common crap software is not certain. What was the last thing you installed?

BoB

 

[Tom.G]

when one drive is busy OS can use the other?

Nah, when the primary Page File is full it overflows to the second one.

As an adjunct to Task Manager, you might try Process Explorer. It reports much more info on the processes. Though Task Manager is better for other than the processes.
https://www.google.com/search?source=&q=process+explorer

 

[rbelli1]

Nah, when the primary Page File is full it overflows to the second one.

One would hope that the OS would share the load between all allocated swap devices. Do common ones actually just overflow like you say?

BoB

 

[Idyit]

Nah, when the primary Page File is full it overflows to the second one.

I don't think this is true anymore, From what I've heard post 2008 windows will use the pagefile on the drive with the least IO.

I swap on a single SSD these days, so I can't verify but you can use perfmon to monitor the individual pagefiles and find out for yourself.

 

[Tom.G]

One would hope that the OS would share the load between all allocated swap devices. Do common ones actually just overflow like you say?

AFAIK, yes. I was 95% sure that I ran across it in MS documentation I have but couldn't find. Then I spent the last 1.5 hours looking for it online and could only find some dodgy, conflicting, references to Win2000; but some entries were only 2 yrs. old. One said to make multiple Page Files in different subdirectories on the same disk, another don't put them on the same disk, a third said put them on disks connected to different controllers so if one is busy the next controller can be used. All on the MS site. Not much help.

XP info is getting hard to obtain. Even some MS pages will flash the content then immediately replace it with a message "This Content Is Not Available."

Arrgh!

 

[OCR]

Much of it is Greek to me

Yeah, me too... mine's a lot different than yours though ?

So is my Task Manager... after this latest update, it shows the GPUs.
Windows 10 -- Version 1709.

Lol...

"I'm taking little white pills, and my eyes are open wide..." Dave Dudley

 

[jim hardy]

esrv.exe is a Sony thing. Complain to them if it is causing problems. Conhost.exe should rarely run so if it is constantly running you have a problem with some other software doing something wrong.

Amongst the problems that Microsoft has I don't believe that either of these things are their fault.

Conhost.exe on constantly would indicate some software misbehaving. Whether it is malware or just common crap software is not certain. What was the last thing you installed?

Intel's Driver Update Server seems to be that troublemaker. Found an entry at Microsoft support that said to uninstall it would fix an ESRV error, but i wasn't getting that error..
So i uninstalled it anyway (after letting it fix a compatibility issue it claimed to have found) , immediately the ESRV and CONHOSTS disappeared from Task Manager.

Machine runs a LOT better since.

So i think it's an INTEL thing - i have nothing SONY except a TV and dvd player. Hmmm dvd player is connected to router by ethernet so as to get Netflix...

Next step is increase memory.
Today I Learned that Resource Monitor's "Hard Fault" isn't memory errors it's accesses to virtual memory on disk, swapping overlays i guess...
Wow - more memory should really reduce disk seeks i wonder how the drives lasted this long !

Thanks Guys - you are increasing my vocabulary exponentially.

old jim

 

[jim hardy]

Laptop is back home now with afresh install of Windows 7.

Here's what 2 more G of ram does

sigh now have to fix touchpad driver to disable tapping and a few other things...

 

[I like Serena]

Seeing the scrollbar as it is suggests to me that you still have way too many processes running.
I have Windows 7 as well, but I have way less - and I have both Firefox and Chrome running.
Either way, I'm not surprised if 2 GiB more memory over 2 GiB will improve your user experience (I have 8 GiB myself privately and 16 GiB at my job - and at my job I need it).

 

[I like Serena]

Actually, your dialog looks more primitive than I'd expect from Windows 7.
How did you get that dialog?
If I use Ctrl+Alt+Delete to bring up the task manager I get:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/951d296c9llnbvx/taskmanager.png
(Tried to insert it as an image, but that doesn't seem to work anymore - not sure why.)

 

[jim hardy]

Actually, your dialog looks more primitive than I'd expect from Windows 7.
How did you get that dialog?

Control-Alt-Delete then 'start task manager'
gives this , i selected it part screen so it wouldn't get shrunk unduly when posted here

them selecting 'processes' gives this horrendously long list of heaven knows what

'Services' gives this equally chaotic pile

'Performance' yields this

and 'resource monitor' brings up the one you asked about

.

Any of them can be expanded to full screen
Being not a software guy
I just assume Windows is thousands of programs running interleaved
and the miracle is NOT that it can execute for a few hours at a time but that it can execute once.old jim

 

[I like Serena]

Ah okay.
It looks as if you're using some kind of 'retro' theme, which doesn't really matter.
Your list of processes looks okay after all.
And it looks like you made a good choice to increase the memory to 4 GiB.

 

[rbelli1]

I just assume Windows is thousands of programs running interleaved
and the miracle is NOT that it can execute for a few hours at a time but that it can execute once.

Don't ask how sausage is made unless you have a strong stomache.

BoB

 

[Tom.G]

Don't ask how sausage or laws are[/color] is made unless you have a strong stomache.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Jim, I've noticed you have a lot of computer problems nobody else has. Have you thought of scrapping everything and starting from scratch? It's a lot of work, but you seem to be spending a lot of time dealing with things not working. This may be the most efficient in the long run.

 

[jim hardy]

Jim, I've noticed you have a lot of computer problems nobody else has.

Largely my own ignorance i think. I lack the interest in Windows to learn it thoroughly.

Have you thought of scrapping everything and starting from scratch? It's a lot of work, but you seem to be spending a lot of time dealing with things not working. This may be the most efficient in the long run.

It's been software issues. The one hardware failure I've had was easy to fix just a broken power pin on motherboard.
Buying a new system i think would be a temporary fix just until its software too gets terminal update poisoning.

I do intend to put together a Linux system - doing that i'll hopefully learn my way around its operating system so won't be so helpless.

More memory will i think get a couple more years out if this desktop.

But getting around to things is a problem for me . Fear of being bored causes me to stack up projects.
And i was raised in the "waste not want not' era . Everywhere i look is some interesting machine i have rescued 'to fix up. '
to wit: engines for son's boat project

Detroit Diesels for 30 cents a pound - who could pass that up ?
and a wound rotor 3 phase induction motor (it was 7 cents a pound)
and a classic 3 cylinder Johnson outboard
and a Porsche engine in there someplace

'Tis a fine madness though.
To get focused on the computer I will have to take an evening course at local CC i think.

Seriously,
Thanks folks for all the help you gave. I really appreciate it and have benefited greatly.
PF is a quality place and I'm honored to be among you .

old jim

 

[Tom.G]

"waste not want not' era

...except for the bank account and storage space.

(I have the same tendency but have learned a bit of restraint...thanks to the wifes 'encouragement.')

 

[NFuller]

It's been software issues. The one hardware failure I've had was easy to fix just a broken power pin on motherboard.
Buying a new system i think would be a temporary fix just until its software too gets terminal update poisoning.

You don't have to buy new hardware. You can just reformat the drive and do a clean install of the OS. This should clean up whatever software problems that have accumulated in the machine.

I have seen many people complaining of sick computers over the years. It's common to blame the manufacturer or blame windows or blame whatever. But often the issue is that the user (sorry jim) did not perform proper maintenance and upkeep of the machine. Computers, like any other machine, need proper care to continue to function normally.

I think the issues you are having mostly stem from allowing software to install a lot of add-ons that are bogging down your system. For some reason, it has become popular among software companies to create software which tries to install other trial software. You will notice this as you click through the software's install program that it may say something like "would you also like to install name of some crappy trialware goes here". Always say no to this during install and keep an eye on what is running in the background. If you see a program running and you don't know what it is, look it up to make sure its not important and if its not, then get rid of it.

 

[jim hardy]

For some reason, it has become popular among software companies to create software which tries to install other trial software.

I DETEST those presumptuous marketeering tactics.
Advertising industry is the bane of Western Civilization. Exposing children to continual lies warps their value system. We're seeing the societal effects now as second generation of 'Raised by TV' kids move into their power years.
----------------- End Rant---------------------------------------------

I understand that Systems folks always blame the user and users always blame the operating system. It's human nature to mistrust whatever is unfamiliar to us..

Actually I'm real careful to NOT let stuff install. If that's a requirement of some page I'm looking at i just close the window and forego it.
when something sneaks in i uninstall it.
and i run frequent virus scans.
Here's what's on this machine (hmmm id forgot about the time i tried djvu, it'll be uninstalled in a few minutes)

Windows Ten DID sneak in and self install one night but i was able to make it go back to this 7 I'm running now..

Getting Windows 7 back on the laptop was a good investigative step.
Comparing its performance with 4G of memory to this desktop's with 2G makes clear the effect of that extra RAM.
I can see on Resource Monitor the difference in disk traffic just loading PF pages .

I think my current troubles were from :
1. a corrupted Intel display driver that, to fix, required downloading and installing another Intel program with a bug that caused my ESRV issue.
Uninstalling that one cured ESRV and freed up about a half-G of memory, which on this machine is 25%.
2. Not enough memory. Some recent Windows update makes it need more memory than i have. Since fixing ESRV issue It limps along running on a restore point from before that update ,
when my local shop opens Monday and i get more RAM i'll perhaps let Windows update again...
Will see if i have enough slots for 8G.

It's running much better now than when i started this thread - and I've learned a lot.

HEARTFELT THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE HELPED !

PS i do have a Windows 7 disk , might try that clean install.
It's terribly intimidating to contemplate .Do you get awarded 'wings' for achieving that ?

old jim

 

[NFuller]

It's terribly intimidating to contemplate .Do you get awarded 'wings' for achieving that ?

Unfortunately no, just the satisfaction that you managed to do it without bricking your computer. Rebuilding the OS is always a pain, but sometimes various software and settings just get so messed up that you need to start over.

Comparing its performance with 4G of memory to this desktop's with 2G makes clear the effect of that extra RAM.

Oh, I didn't realize you only had 2GB of RAM. Windows 7 generally requires a minimum of 4GB to run smoothly and Windows 10 needs a little more. So if you are going to buy more RAM, I think it would be helpful.

 

[Mark44]

This machine is several years old now. i think i got it Summer of 2010 and 2G seemed a lot back then.

Which makes it a bit over 7 years old. That's a long time for a laptop computer. If it were me I would be thinking of getting a new computer sometime in the not-too-distant future. My desktop computer is about 4 years old, and I'm thinking of getting a new one, not because I'm having any problems with the present one, but to keep up with the state of the art in CPU features, especially 512-bit AVX registers.

 

[fluidistic]

Consider dual booting first and/or switching entirely to Linux. I'd suggest a virtual machine but your pc/laptop might not support it. Pick an easy to learn and use lightweight distribution such as Xubuntu or Lubuntu.
You'd still have/be able to install Firefox, Thunderbird and other programs in your list. Also note that OpenOffice was last updated almost 7 years ago, nowadays the deal is with LibreOffice.
Then you won't need an anti virus and the bloat will be much lesser than on Windows.

 

[Idyit]

Linux is just a vulnerable if not more vulnerable to malware and viruses , check exploitdb website if you want more information.
Most Linus distros end up having the same exploits and can take more than 3 years before they are addressed.
I've been using Linux since '95 and have a lot of respect for the developers and distro management teams, but they understandably aren't as responsive as professional OS developers, and you are fooling yourself if you think they aren't vulnerable to infection.

 

[jim hardy]

I'm thinking more memory might fix this old desktop . It's run quite well since the last tweak - uninstalled that Intel update server AFTER replacing an Intel graphic driver that was either corrupted or outdated i don't know which.

I guess the sad truth is to really own any machine you have to learn its workings thoroughly. Windows is more than i want to dive into so i'll just get my feet wet enough to keep it running. Seventy five bucks gets a new copy installed (and a new hard drive) at my local shop. And i have a Windows 7 Pro disk - i should be set for another decade.

Appeal of Linux is learning it well enough to claim ownership of the computer.

Thanks for the help and observations, all !

old jim