Yang-Mills covariant derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the Yang-Mills covariant derivative, exploring its definition, properties, and implications within the context of gauge theory. Participants examine the nature of the gauge field and its transformation laws, as well as the challenges in finding suitable texts for understanding these concepts in quantum field theory (QFT).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the gauge field \( A_\mu \) should be considered a 1-form or an operator, leading to different interpretations of the covariant derivative \( D_\mu \).
  • Another participant asserts that classically, \( A_\mu \) is a 1-form field that multiplies \( \Phi \), while in quantization, it becomes an operator.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the transformation law of the gauge field, suggesting that it appears to imply a zero-valued connection before transformation.
  • One participant clarifies that the connection is not zero-valued but arbitrary, emphasizing the concept of gauge symmetry in Yang-Mills theory.
  • Several participants discuss the inadequacies of existing textbooks on QFT, noting issues with clarity and rigor, particularly regarding the distinction between numbers and operators.
  • Recommendations for texts include chapter 15 of Peskin & Schroeder for basics on Yang-Mills theory, and Kaku's Quantum Field Theory for a more structured approach to gauge theory.
  • Some participants express mixed feelings about Weinberg's text, citing its logical consistency but also its challenging notation.
  • Another participant suggests reading Zee for a general feel of the subject before diving into more complex materials like Coleman’s lectures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the gauge field and the adequacy of various texts on QFT. There is no consensus on a single authoritative interpretation or recommended resource.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in existing literature, including a lack of clarity on the distinction between numbers and operators, and the challenges of rigor in QFT. These issues contribute to the ongoing debate about the best resources for learning about Yang-Mills theory and gauge fields.

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In developing the Yang-Mills Lagrangian, Wikipedia defines the covariant derivative as

[tex]\ D_ \mu = \partial _\mu + A _\mu (x)[/tex].

Is A_mu to be taken as a 1-form, so that

[tex]\ D _\mu \Phi = \partial _\mu \Phi + A _\mu (x)[/tex]

or an operator on \Phi, such that

[tex]\ D _\mu \Phi = \partial _\mu \Phi + A _\mu (x) \Phi[/tex]
 
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operator
 
Classically, it's a 1-form field that gets multiplied by Phi. When you quantize, you promote it to operator.
 
thanks guys
 
As an exercise, I derived the (classical) connection given by the Wikipedia article. But now I'm wondering what it is that I've derived?

They claim "the gauge field A(x) is defined to have the transformation law:

[tex]A_\mu (x) \mapsto A_\mu (x) - \frac{1}{g}(\partial_\mu G(x))G^{-1}(x)[/tex]

This is all very nice, but the connection [tex]A_\mu[/tex] is zero valued before the transformation isn't it?

If this is the case it would seem to be saying

[tex]0 \mapsto 0 - \frac{1}{g}(\partial_\mu G(x))G^{-1}(x)[/tex]
 
No, it's not zero valued, it's completely arbitrary.

Yang-Mills field consists of a set of N matter fields (boson or fermion) and a gauge field. For simplicity, consider scalar fields. Classically, you can describe Yang-Mills field with a set of N numbers and a connection (basically a N*N*4 array of complex numbers) in every point of space. This description has a "gauge symmetry", meaning that many different combinations of numbers describe identical physics. Your transformation law says that, you can start with [tex]A(x)[/tex] and [tex]\Phi(x)[/tex], apply gauge transformation using arbitrary [tex]G(x)[/tex], and you'll have an identical state, in the sense that all physical observables are the same as before the transformation. One consequence is that the Lagrangian must be invariant under the transformation. The other is that all physical observables must be invariant. For example, the field itself is not invariant, therefore it's not measurable. But you can construct invariant quantities, such as the trace of an integral of the connection around any closed path.
 
hamster143 said:
No, it's not zero valued, it's completely arbitrary.

Yes, that was my point. A temporary mental block had me stuck.

[/quote]Yang-Mills field consists of a set of N matter fields (boson or fermion) and a gauge field. For simplicity, consider scalar fields. Classically, you can describe Yang-Mills field with a set of N numbers and a connection (basically a N*N*4 array of complex numbers) in every point of space. This description has a "gauge symmetry", meaning that many different combinations of numbers describe identical physics. Your transformation law says that, you can start with [tex]A(x)[/tex] and [tex]\Phi(x)[/tex], apply gauge transformation using arbitrary [tex]G(x)[/tex], and you'll have an identical state, in the sense that all physical observables are the same as before the transformation. One consequence is that the Lagrangian must be invariant under the transformation. The other is that all physical observables must be invariant. For example, the field itself is not invariant, therefore it's not measurable. But you can construct invariant quantities, such as the trace of an integral of the connection around any closed path.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the clarifications. Can you recommend a text? Wikipedia is proving insufficient of course.
 
hamster143 said:
No, it's not zero valued, it's completely arbitrary.

Yes, that was my point. A temporary mental block had me stuck.

And thanks for the clarifications. Can you recommend a text? Wikipedia is proving insufficient of course.
 
What kind of text do you need?

If you want general QFT, there's no good text, they are all equally bad. It still amazes me that we don't have a single textbook that would bother to keep the distinction between numbers and operators (is it so hard to keep hats?), or to define the Hilbert space of quantum fields, or to maintain some kind of rigor when dealing with loops of virtual particles. Many texts even use dimensional regularization (aka "magic") as the primary device to show how to cancel infinities that arise in those loops. (Which, in my opinion, is an absolute crime against humanity punishable by a lifetime ban on publishing) No one even tries to make the connection between QFT and higher-level theories (classical field theory or nonrelativistic QM). Grassmann numbers (the epitome of unphysical) are the centerpiece of every book, but you have to go into specialized literature to find out about polymer models. Ugh.

If you just want the basics of Yang-Mills theory, chapter 15 of Peskin & Schroeder does a decent job while staying readable.
 
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  • #10
hamster143 said:
What kind of text do you need?

If you want general QFT, there's no good text, they are all equally bad. It still amazes me that we don't have a single textbook that would bother to keep the distinction between numbers and operators (is it so hard to keep hats?), or to define the Hilbert space of quantum fields, or to maintain some kind of rigor when dealing with loops of virtual particles. Many texts even use dimensional regularization (aka "magic") as the primary device to show how to cancel infinities that arise in those loops. (Which, in my opinion, is an absolute crime against humanity punishable by a lifetime ban on publishing) No one even tries to make the connection between QFT and higher-level theories (classical field theory or nonrelativistic QM). Grassmann numbers (the epitome of unphysical) are the centerpiece of every book, but you have to go into specialized literature to find out about polymer models. Ugh.

If you just want the basics of Yang-Mills theory, chapter 15 of Peskin & Schroeder does a decent job while staying readable.

Thanks, I'll keep Peskin in mind. I have Weinberg, but I've been loathe to open it, for similar reasons you give above. Guess I'll have to. I really need a good development of classical, local gauge fields, (for the slow learner, of course :) that I can apply to a Kaluza-Klein topology, and see what breaks--or doesn't. The quantum development would be extra icing.
 
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  • #11
I found Weinberg too thick and he doesn't cover gauge theory much. Kaku's Quantum Field Theory is better, first covering Lie algebra, then devoting a chapter to gauge theory.
 
  • #12
Weinbergs text is probably the most intellectually satisfying, in that its pretty logically consistent. However the notation is atrocious (why carry so many Clebsch coefficients?) and justs serves to mask some of the physics.

Id recommend reading through Zee quickly without doing the exercises and just getting a feel of things, and then find Colemans lectures or just take a class.
 
  • #13
Haelfix said:
Weinbergs text is probably the most intellectually satisfying, in that its pretty logically consistent. However the notation is atrocious (why carry so many Clebsch coefficients?) and justs serves to mask some of the physics.

Id recommend reading through Zee quickly without doing the exercises and just getting a feel of things, and then find Colemans lectures or just take a class.

Thanks Haelfix. After pecking around, I was suprized to find this folderhttps://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=151"

Some are downloadable texts, or lecture notes, so I can actually see from the table of contents if they contain what I'm after.

The Coleman Lectures look very cool, but my limited bandwidth places them out range.
 
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