A Difficult Change: Dealing with Ending a Close Friendship

[honestrosewater]

So I met this guy online. At first, I thought he was gay. (I love that story.) After talking to him for a while, I thought he was strange. After a while more, I found him annoying. And after even longer, he became a good friend. I started to like him, and I wanted him to like me. We kept growing closer and it seemed at times like he might be willing to give us a chance, but whenever I asked about it directly, he said that he wanted to just be friends. Fast forward about four years. He is my best friend. We have gone through this cycle several times of me wanting more, him saying no, and me accepting that and giving up. No matter what I do, the cycle keeps repeating.

He and his girlfriend broke up several months ago, starting another cycle of us growing closer. It's incredibly hard for me to not be there for him when he is sad. Anyway, I finally realized that we had to give our romantic relationship a chance. Something had to change. We had to go on a date. It seemed like a very simple thing. After a lot of back and forth, I got a straight answer from him. It was a no. He thought it wasn't worth it. (We live about 1200 miles apart (though those things can change).)

So he wants to just be friends, and I don't want to just be friends, and I don't think anything is going to change that. And as long as we try to just be friends, I'll keep having to go through this oscillation of growing closer to him, caring more about him, and then having to push myself away. And that is just too painful and not fair to me. So we just can't be friends. I don't think I ever really managed to explain this to him, but I finally just had to say goodbye.

It's been about a month since our friendship ended, or changed drastically. We've talked a few times. I'd like us to be able to be friendly now and then, like old friends. I'm okay with it sometimes. Sometimes, I even almost convince myself that things are better this way. But sometimes I miss him almost as much as I did the first day, and I wish there was something I could do to change his mind. And I'm not sure what to do when I feel this way.

Maybe it's just a physiological process that has to run its course. He was my best friend, and we did talk almost daily for four years, so turning to him had become habitual, I was accustomed to him being there, there are a lot of memories to distance myself from, lots of what-ifs to let go of, and so on. Or maybe it's something psychological that I have to reason myself through. Or maybe it's a mix of both. I am not sure. So when it feels like things are worse now than before, I don't know if I would be better off ignoring it or confronting it. He is the one that I would normally have talked to about something like this. So... what do I do? I'm trying to do my homework, but this is distracting me.

 

[lisab]

Such a sad story...I feel bad for you!

As far as heartbreak, yeah, I think it just has to run its course. I would treat it the same way as an "in person" break up...hang out with your friends, work on a hobby (or start one), write in a journal...that sort of thing.

 

[anubis01]

sigh... you know its kind of depressing seeing how this describes my experience almost word for word.

You made the right decision. Trying to remain friends would be very difficult because eventually those feelings would just keep coming to the surface again and its unfair to ask that you go through that. Its perfectly natural to miss this person, and you will for quiet some time but eventually you'll learn to live with it. Oh and a good idea is to try and keep yourself occupied, whether you do this by going out with friends, burying yourself in work etc is up to you, just as long as its an activity that will keep the guy off your mind.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

You did the right thing even if it was difficult. Give him space and maybe some day he will come around. But certainly don't wait around. Live your life. Try new hobbies, travel, spend time with friends and family, start running every day. Use this time for YOU. Do things that give you confidence and do things for yourself, be selfish! Don't try and repress anything. Take time each day and think about things. But confine the time, don't let it take your entire day. Then a few months later you will find you think about him less and less. He will never leave your mind, but even the biggest heartbreak does lessen and you are able to enjoy life again. Trust me!

 

[rootX]

So I met this guy online.

I think it is immature to develop relationships online. So you were wrong ;p.

 

[chroot]

All people, if they simply live long enough, will experience some form of unrequited love. It's certainly painful, and I'm sorry you have to endure it.

Long-distance relationships are honestly rarely successful in the long term. The distance allows them to remain at a simmer virtually forever, mainly because it's very easy to expose only the best parts of one's personality and lifestyle. I won't say that all long-distance relationships are fictions, but they are very easy to idealize, romanticize, and exaggerate.

honestrosewater, you are better off doing almost anything other than pursuing a man who lives 1,200 miles away and has repeatedly turned you down. As un-romantic as it sounds, in truth there are thousands or tens of thousands of men in the world who would be a perfect fit for you, and all you need to do is find one.

For now, consider just dating casually for a while. Date for the fun of meeting new people, not because you expect or desire to meet your husband-to-be. Join some online dating sites if you're not interested in traditional ways of meeting other singles (something like 30% of today's newlyweds met online) and have a ball. Don't get involved with anyone who lives more than a comfortable driving distance. There are plenty of men in your area who are looking for a girl just like you -- make it easy for them!

- Warren

 

[honestrosewater]

Thanks. You guys are right. I know you're right. I suppose I still sort of wish that I could make sense of it or understand why he didn't think it was worth giving a chance. Maybe a reason wouldn't help. I don't think I'm going to get one anyway, so I probably should let that go.

I have gone on a few dates. I tend to only get along well with people who like math, and most people -- for some unimaginable reason -- don't like math. Actually, going back to school now and taking freshman math courses, I can understand how people get turned off to math. My calculus professor is pretty cute, though. But I think he might be married. :boh:

Where do I find a stud who who loves math and running?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Where do I find a stud who who loves math and running?

PF Dating services is in the works... maybe... maybe?

 

[SpaceTiger]

You can't rely on the internet for friends or love interests. You need to go out and meet people near you; otherwise, your life is just going to be one vacuum after another. It sounds like this guy understands that and it's why he keeps turning you down. I'm sure he enjoys talking to you, but that's not enough for a relationship.

 

[honestrosewater]

Does anyone here live around Tampa, FL? There are several people here who I would love to meet, but everyone lives far away (I think).

 

[Moonbear]

PF Dating services is in the works... maybe... maybe?

We keep telling you we need that PF dating service! :rofl:

Hey, it's a refreshing change to read a "guy trouble" thread instead of a "girl trouble" thread around here.

Anyway, on the serious side, yes, I also think you did the right thing, as hard as it feels. It happens to everyone eventually, and everyone manages to get over it somehow.

I also agree with Warren that it's rare for long distance relationships to really work, and especially when they START long distance. I really think the only time they stand a chance is when they start out local, and someone moves after the relationship has been established. And, yes, the problem is they tend to drag on far longer and be more painful when they end than if you lived closer to that person to see their flaws much more quickly.

Hang tough, kiddo!

 

[protonchain]

1. You did the right thing. I have to say that right off the bat. There's no need to (and I mean this in the best way possible) waste your time with someone who's vacillating over something very important. It's a bad game of tug of war.

2. This is sort of what was happening with my best friend, except obviously, I'm not gay and we're not in love or some stupid thing. I just had to accept that we were getting busier and so we couldn't chill out as often as possible. With his new girlfriend, things are getting even more awkward when we have guy hangouts (me, him and a bunch of our friends) and he totes his GF along. Makeout session after another and he relentlessly succumbs to her every whim and fancy. It's sickening. Not a good place to be, don't care if he's not my best friend anymore, don't care if I don't chat with him about stuff, had to live with it and move on.

3. There are tons of fish in the sea. Yeah I know it's a tired old statement but my God is it ever true. When my ex broke up with me, I was depressed and down for like 5 months. She was my first and I had waited long for someone like her, so it was really really tough for me. Then of course 2 years has passed, and now I'm working in the UCSD hospital. Holy crap. The girls are pretty and smart and have great personalities. I'm in freaking love.

You'll find a better guy, don't worry about it. Be patient, and the right person will fall from the sky (not literally hopefully).

 

[honestrosewater]

Well, I am not looking for a long-distance relationship with anyone. But given where we were, there were only two paths available. I don't know exactly where the other one would have led.

So how do I find these guys? I meet guys all the time, even walking down the street. I haven't liked any of them. There is no one at work or school that I like, except perhaps my one professor, who is probably married and is off-limits as long as he is my teacher anyway. I have been on three dating sites, and on the only one where I've ever met anyone cool, I have been through all of my matches within a 100-mile radius. Seriously. And I am being very open-minded and casual and giving everyone a generous chance. The results are just that I seem to be compatible with an extremely small percentage of people.

So how do I find them? I mean, I am not in a huge rush, but it certainly would be nice. I think my chances of meeting people are much better online, but obviously, I want to meet someone who lives near me or could live near me soon.

 

[Evo]

Meeting people on the internet that live a long distance away can be quite successful if you are strong enough emotionally. I know many people that met that way that moved together, got married, had kids and have been married for 10+ years.

Kerrie, a retired mentor, met her husband on the internet, they had a long distance relationship, IIRC, he was the one that moved to be with her, they married and she retired after she had their first child together.

 

[lisab]

Meeting people on the internet that live a long distance away can be quite successful if you are strong enough emotionally. I know many people that met that way that moved together, got married, had kids and have been married for 10+ years.

Kerrie, a retired mentor, met her husband on the internet, they had a long distance relationship, IIRC, he was the one that moved to be with her, they married and she retired after she had their first child together.

True...and you not only have to be emotionally stable, but very honest. It's easy to make yourself look angelic.

 

[Astronuc]

The internet is a meeting place for people - it's just a product of the times. Before electricity people wrote letters. Then perhaps small messages in newspapers. Then there was the telephone.

My brother met his wife at a summer university program in Indiana. She went back to the Philippines for senior year of high school, and he returned to Houston. That's 13,743 kilometers or 8540 miles distance. They stayed in touch for 1 year. She moved to the US for university, the same one as my brother. They got married two years later.

I have a close friend who I've known for 10 years and who lives 4200 miles away. In fact, most of my oldest friends from elementary school through first year of university live more than 1800 miles away in Texas or California.

Hang in there HRW. I'm sure there's some lucky guy out there waiting to find you.


If I was half my age and single . . . :uhh:

 

[Moonbear]

So how do I find these guys? I meet guys all the time, even walking down the street. I haven't liked any of them. There is no one at work or school that I like, except perhaps my one professor, who is probably married and is off-limits as long as he is my teacher anyway. I have been on three dating sites, and on the only one where I've ever met anyone cool, I have been through all of my matches within a 100-mile radius. Seriously. And I am being very open-minded and casual and giving everyone a generous chance. The results are just that I seem to be compatible with an extremely small percentage of people.

So how do I find them? I mean, I am not in a huge rush, but it certainly would be nice. I think my chances of meeting people are much better online, but obviously, I want to meet someone who lives near me or could live near me soon.

I can definitely sympathize. For an intelligent woman, it's really hard to find a man with a brain who doesn't also have a completely over-inflated ego. Yes, they exist, but they are rare and hard to find. I would recommend expanding the 100 mile radius to 200 miles. That's still a distance that allows reasonable visits, such as long weekends together. But, more importantly, it might catch a few just outside the 100 mile radius.

I also know people who have successfully met partners online (I just attended a wedding two weeks ago of a couple who met online who are absolutely perfect for one another...I could tell the first time I ever saw them together), but you go through a lot of duds before you find a keeper. There really are a lot of total losers looking for dates online, so you just have to be patient and not give up. I started to lose count of the men my friend met online and went on first dates with only to decide they were far too weird to go on second dates with before she met THE one. Women in my town pretty much have to find dates online. There really aren't any decent single men in my town if you are out of your early 20s...we have to import them.

 

[honestrosewater]

You can't rely on the internet for friends or love interests. You need to go out and meet people near you; otherwise, your life is just going to be one vacuum after another.

I can't sleep now thinking about this. What do you mean?

I'm sure he enjoys talking to you, but that's not enough for a relationship.

What is enough for a relationship?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I can't sleep now thinking about this. What do you mean?

What is enough for a relationship?

Real meaningful relationships are usually organic and face to face. Human bonds are created in the little moments and intricacies of interaction which the internet is unable to provide at the moment. Things like, how he smirks, how he smells, that he trips when you two walk together, how he holds your hand, that he buys you your favorite drink at the gas stop. Little every day things build connections that chatting or even video conference can't provide.

What is enough is ultimately up to you, but we already know that talking on the phone and the long distance yo-yo was not enough for you. So don't fool yourself. You deserve someone better. Someone that cherishes, respects and is truly interested in you.

But also I wouldn't weigh the importance on finding someone so high. Yes it's what we all want. But especially right out of a relationship the best thing for you is to focus on yourself. Go have fun! Spend time with lots of guys even if you don't want to date them. Don't focus on having a "boyfriend". Do things you enjoy and interesting men will eventually fall in your lap. It won't happen over night and may take a couple years, but so what.

 

[SpaceTiger]

I can't sleep now thinking about this. What do you mean?

Greg explained it really well. Although I'm sure that people can form and maintain meaningful relationships over the internet, I think the majority of us need the person-to-person contact in order for it to be truly fulfilling. I know that has been the case for me. I did the "online relationship" a few times in high school and I have to say, even when it was good, it still felt like something was missing. I still occasionally use the internet as an escape or for solace when I'm feeling down, but I try to keep it from becoming too big a part of my personal life.

What is enough for a relationship?

Well, in that post, I was talking about a romantic relationship. For a casual friendship, the internet can be just fine. I find, however, if I didn't previously establish the relationship in person, it's very difficult to feel as close to them as I normally would for a girlfriend or close friend.

I should say that I don't necessarily think long-distance romantic relationships are a mistake. It depends a lot upon the personalities of the people and the distance between them, but I find it can work well so long as there is occasional person-to-person contact (I need ~once a month, at least). I have been in a long-distance relationship (3-hour drive) with my fiancée since we started dating last June and things have been great. During the semester, I see her about one weekend every other week.

 

[honestrosewater]

Well, we weren't in a romantic relationship. I thought it was worth giving a chance. I thought we needed to give it a chance because that is what I always ended up thinking. I still think, even after all of this, that it was worth giving a chance. That was why I asked him on a date, to meet and find out the things that we didn't know about each other. I must say, though, that after knowing someone for so long and sharing so much, there isn't a lot that you are going to learn from meeting once or even a handful of times. It is a short list of physical chemistry things and some resolving of communication problems. No? This is one point where we agreed. I mean, the experience is very different obviously, but what are you going to learn about a close friend by going on a date with them? So I suppose the date would have been to *start* finding out if we were romantically compatible or not. I didn't want an online or long-distance relationship. I wanted our relationship to move in one direction or the other. It had to.

Maybe I am just having a bad night. But I still don't see a reason why we shouldn't have met. It's hard to talk about while trying to maintain the right amount of privacy, so maybe it's not something that I will be able to talk through here. What would have been a good reason to end our friendship instead of going on a date? I can see saying no if you were sure that wouldn't be romantically compatible. Is there another reason?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

:hugs:

Sorry to hear about your romantic problems Rose. Its really hard when you feel so strongly about someone but can not be with them.

So how do I find them? I mean, I am not in a huge rush, but it certainly would be nice. I think my chances of meeting people are much better online, but obviously, I want to meet someone who lives near me or could live near me soon.

This is hard too. I rarely meet anyone that I am actually romantically interested in even if I do find them attractive. The best advice I have gotten on this is that you should try to go places where you are more likely to meet people who have similar interests and fit the category of person you are looking for. I am still trying to figure out just where to go myself so I understand if you would have the same problem.


I've met some wonderful women on the internet. One broke my heart too. :-/
But I have also met some ladies that were quite different than what I expected when I met them in person. One in particular I thought had a cute little quirk which turned out to be a major debilitation that made me uncomfortable to even spend time with her. You never really know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Monique]

But I still don't see a reason why we shouldn't have met. It's hard to talk about while trying to maintain the right amount of privacy, so maybe it's not something that I will be able to talk through here. What would have been a good reason to end our friendship instead of going on a date? I can see saying no if you were sure that wouldn't be romantically compatible. Is there another reason?

Well, there's always the possibility that he has not been 100% honest and that he feels that meeting in person would break the facade? If he doesn't want to hang out in real life then that is a real red flag, no matter his reasons.

As for meeting some interesting boyfriend material, use your friend network. Friends have similar values as you, meeting their friends means you've got some pre-selected people to be introduced to.

 

[Huckleberry]

What would have been a good reason to end our friendship instead of going on a date? I can see saying no if you were sure that wouldn't be romantically compatible. Is there another reason?

You didn't ask him? Did this breaking of the friendship come out of the blue immediately after you asked for a date? If a reason wasn't given, even a bad one, that's a bit disconcerting after a four year friendship.

Sorry HRW. Last year someone I met online about 8 years ago sent me a message. We started communicating again. She told me that she was moving from Saudi Arabia to Canada to go to school and was hoping that I would come to meet her. I've been in a funk for a while now and I think she changed her mind because of it. She doesn't seem to want to be friends any more. That's got me all kinds of confused and questioning if there ever was a friendship to begin with, and why she waited all this time to make contact again. It's not the same as your situation, but I can imagine some of the confusion you're feeling.

If you can let it go then I suggest you do. Concentrating on yourself is a good idea right now. Take it out on the track. The physical exertion might help you concentrate on your studies. Fill your free time with friends and family. Meet new people and make some new social networks. Life can be a relentless pacer sometimes, but it's better to try to keep up than give up. You'll get over this and have all the studs chasing you around the track again in no time. Chances are there's at least one thoroughbred in the bunch somewhere.

 

[Monique]

I have gone on a few dates. I tend to only get along well with people who like math, and most people -- for some unimaginable reason -- don't like math. Actually, going back to school now and taking freshman math courses, I can understand how people get turned off to math. My calculus professor is pretty cute, though. But I think he might be married. :boh:

Where do I find a stud who who loves math and running?

Oh, don't limit yourself by only looking for someone who has a similar interest as you: math and running. Look for someone who has a similar passion or mindset as you. That person might be an engineer, an ITer or an entrepreneur. I've never dated anyone who has studied biology, but they definitely had a goal or passion in life. That's what makes a relationship interesting, I think it would be very boring to live with someone who does the exact same thing as me.

 

[honestrosewater]

You didn't ask him? Did this breaking of the friendship come out of the blue immediately after you asked for a date? If a reason wasn't given, even a bad one, that's a bit disconcerting after a four year friendship.

We talked about it plenty, though as soon as I thought something was resolved, it turned out not to be, so it doesn't feel like we made much progress on understanding each other. I imagine he expected that the conversations would stay private, so talking about what he said doesn't seem right in a public forum. It doesn't make a big difference because he said different things at different times. The whole meeting discussion probably went on for a couple months. He even agreed to a date at one point. The one thing that he stayed consistent on, and this was from the very beginning, years ago, was the problem of us living so far apart. The only other thing I am sure of is that he didn't think that I would really leave. He called me a drama queen and refused to say goodbye. And honestly, I haven't left completely. I'm trying.

The thing that is bothering me is the possibility that the reason wasn't that he thought we were incompatible. It might have been that he was sure that we would have a good time and he was afraid that he would like me and it would complicate things too much because he didn't think that I would move or that we would be able to work something out. (I am not pulling this out of thin air. His thinking this is a real possibility.) If that was why he said no, am I still right to leave? I mean, I guess I don't really have a choice. But... sigh. I don't know. It's so hard to give up when I don't know why I am giving up.

 

[honestrosewater]

Oh, don't limit yourself by only looking for someone who has a similar interest as you: math and running. Look for someone who has a similar passion or mindset as you. That person might be an engineer, an ITer or an entrepreneur. I've never dated anyone who has studied biology, but they definitely had a goal or passion in life. That's what makes a relationship interesting, I think it would be very boring to live with someone who does the exact same thing as me.

Oh, sure. They wouldn't have to be a mathematician. My friend was an engineer. But lots of engineers still like and use math, as do physicists, chemists, philosophers, and plenty of people outside of science or academia. There is just a way of dealing with the world and a set of beliefs and theories that math tends to impart to people. It tends to make you think and see things in certain ways. And I like this way of thinking. In the context of dating, liking math is, to me, probably analogous to having the same religion, in the sense of its fundamentality and such.

 

[Monique]

The thing that is bothering me is the possibility that the reason wasn't that he thought we were incompatible. It might have been that he was sure that we would have a good time and he was afraid that he would like me and it would complicate things too much because he didn't think that I would move or that we would be able to work something out. (I am not pulling this out of thin air. His thinking this is a real possibility.) If that was why he said no, am I still right to leave?

I think in that case you are still right to leave. He really should make up his mind. If he really thinks that you two would have a good time, it is time for him to make a move. You've made a serious effort and made it clear that you would like to meet, I don't think you should question yourself.

Oh, sure. They wouldn't have to be a mathematician. My friend was an engineer. But lots of engineers still like and use math, as do physicists, chemists, philosophers, and plenty of people outside of science or academia. There is just a way of dealing with the world and a set of beliefs and theories that math tends to impart to people. It tends to make you think and see things in certain ways. And I like this way of thinking. In the context of dating, liking math is, to me, probably analogous to having the same religion, in the sense of its fundamentality and such.

I understand, but 'liking math' is still a strange criterion for starting a relationship. There are many people who would say they don't 'like math', but still share the same analytical mindset (and just have a broader world-view or priorities besides just math). I'm not saying that to be critical, it's just that I've met people who would never say they like math but who are very intelligent, passionate and inquisitive.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I understand, but 'liking math' is still a strange criterion for starting a relationship.

Maybe its just sort of a basic guideline that can be diverged from somewhat? I personally use 'reads books' as a criterion. Some of my girlfriends did not read much but generally enjoyed reading when they did. Its just a small basic thing that seems to be a good indicator that we may be compatible in other ways as well.

And I can't believe the number of people out there that do not like to read! I find it hard to believe I might enjoy a relationship with someone who does not like to read.

 

[SpaceTiger]

I understand, but 'liking math' is still a strange criterion for starting a relationship. There are many people who would say they don't 'like math', but still share the same analytical mindset (and just have a broader world-view or priorities besides just math). I'm not saying that to be critical, it's just that I've met people who would never say they like math but who are very intelligent, passionate and inquisitive.

I wouldn't say I disagree with either of you, but I think I understand what HRW is driving at. The only girl I dated whose work wasn't in some way math/logic-oriented was constantly fighting with me and accusing me of being too analytical. It may be something I take for granted among my friends, since they're almost all scientists or engineers of one kind or another.

I would say, however, that one shouldn't put too much emphasis on sharing specific interests. If you really love one another, you'll find things that you enjoy doing together. Interests you don't share should be viewed as opportunities to socialize with people outside of the relationship.

 

[honestrosewater]

I think in that case you are still right to leave. He really should make up his mind. If he really thinks that you two would have a good time, it is time for him to make a move. You've made a serious effort and made it clear that you would like to meet, I don't think you should question yourself.

Yes, good point. It sucks in a way because I don't imagine he will pursue it. He was happy with us being friends. Trying to save our friendship was the only reason he had to change anything. And when he finally realizes that it was at stake, he might not care enough to do anything about it. Anyway, it was a bad situation, so I guess it's good that things changed. And I suppose I should want or deserve someone who would pursue me. (After all, I am totally awesome. :buggrin:)

I understand, but 'liking math' is still a strange criterion for starting a relationship. There are many people who would say they don't 'like math', but still share the same analytical mindset (and just have a broader world-view or priorities besides just math). I'm not saying that to be critical, it's just that I've met people who would never say they like math but who are very intelligent, passionate and inquisitive.

Point taken. I won't have strict requirements.

 

[Monique]

And I suppose I should want or deserve someone who would pursue me. (After all, I am totally awesome. :buggrin:)

You definitely do!

 

[honestrosewater]

I don't know what to say to him now. I was hoping that we could stay friends in some way. An all-or-nothing approach is an extreme I would like to avoid, but maybe it is not avoidable. I still care about him, but I don't think I can invest any more in our relationship. When I have thought so in the past, that I had reached my limit, there always ended up being something more that I was willing to do. Maybe I need a completely clean break. i just still don't want to lose him. I don't know why. Why is it so hard?

I thought I was past this part already.

 

[Astronuc]

i just still don't want to lose him. I don't know why. Why is it so hard?

I thought I was past this part already.

It's a bit like addiction. The brain becomes accustomed to the positive feelings (stimuation of certain areas of the cerebral cortex) that come with a close relationship, and it's hard to give that up. That's one reason why divorce and failed relationships can take a toll on one's health.

 

[waht]

You have demanded a romantic relationship with him. He declined, it's his loss. You have to cut contact with him ASAP. Delete all his emails, and start a new chapter in your life.

Same goes for the guys. If we are rejected, we're gone, except maybe for some nice guy that will cling around.

I would not stay friends with a girl that rejected me. It would be extremely disrespectful to my new girlfriend and myself.