The only women ever interested in me were in relationships.

[Newai]

Anyone here ever have anything like that? I'm not the best looking man in the world, but what is this about? I've never been involved with a woman who was already involved. But married women often, I do mean often, cozy right up to me real fast. I'm getting the impression that the guys in my area have little skill in keeping their women happy. I guess.

This actually makes me like the single crowd much more because it's extra effort in the game I have to commit. I love the challenge.

 

[Drakkith]

What do you mean by "Cozy up" with you?

 

[Newai]

What do you mean by "Cozy up" with you?

Not a good choice of words. I mean they get friendly in a more than casual friendly way.

 

[Drakkith]

Honestly, I feel the same way sometimes. My ex girlfriend was actually married when we dated. She said she was getting divorced, but ended up going back to her husband.

Do you meet a lot of single women, or just mostly married women? That could have a big effect. Also, I would expect a married women to NOT be looking for the same things that she would be if she were single, which may mean that she actually gets to know the real you.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I've noticed many women in long term relationships that seem to flirt around with other men a lot. One big reason may be simply that they want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men, they don't really have any intention of following through. If you know them and/or their partners then they may just feel more comfortable being open and affectionate seeing that they are in a relationship and shouldn't have to worry about you getting the wrong idea. Many of my friend's wives and girlfriends have been rather more affectionate towards me than I would have expected.

 

[Femme_physics]

I've noticed many women in long term relationships that seem to flirt around with other men a lot. One big reason may be simply that they want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men, they don't really have any intention of following through. If you know them and/or their partners then they may just feel more comfortable being open and affectionate seeing that they are in a relationship and shouldn't have to worry about you getting the wrong idea. Many of my friend's wives and girlfriends have been rather more affectionate towards me than I would have expected.

Couldn't have said it better...

 

[Newai]

I've noticed many women in long term relationships that seem to flirt around with other men a lot. One big reason may be simply that they want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men, they don't really have any intention of following through. If you know them and/or their partners then they may just feel more comfortable being open and affectionate seeing that they are in a relationship and shouldn't have to worry about you getting the wrong idea. Many of my friend's wives and girlfriends have been rather more affectionate towards me than I would have expected.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Big thank you for helping me understand one of the biggest mysteries in my social experiences.

 

[lisab]

I've noticed many women in long term relationships that seem to flirt around with other men a lot. One big reason may be simply that they want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men, they don't really have any intention of following through. If you know them and/or their partners then they may just feel more comfortable being open and affectionate seeing that they are in a relationship and shouldn't have to worry about you getting the wrong idea. Many of my friend's wives and girlfriends have been rather more affectionate towards me than I would have expected.

Here's another perspective: a woman being nice (or simply being themselves*) can easily be interpreted as flirting by some males. Women know this, and a single woman has to keep that behavior in check when she's around men, knowing how it will be interpreted. Once she's no longer available, she can more freely be herself, confident that her "attached" status protects her from unwanted advances.

This interpretation feels much closer to truth to me, than thinking women who are in relationships "want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men."

* This behavior can include making jokes, holding eye contact, touching (like on the arm), etc.

 

[rootX]

I am always really impressed by single moms (but not get interested - age gap) with young children. They handle so many things by themselves, and being practical, l I find that amazing!

 

[Newai]

Here's another perspective: a woman being nice (or simply being themselves*) can easily be interpreted as flirting by some males. Women know this, and a single woman has to keep that behavior in check when she's around men, knowing how it will be interpreted. Once she's no longer available, she can more freely be herself, confident that her "attached" status protects her from unwanted advances.

This interpretation feels much closer to truth to me, than thinking women who are in relationships "want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men."

* This behavior can include making jokes, holding eye contact, touching (like on the arm), etc.

Well now that's just down right insulting.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Here's another perspective: a woman being nice (or simply being themselves*) can easily be interpreted as flirting by some males. Women know this, and a single woman has to keep that behavior in check when she's around men, knowing how it will be interpreted. Once she's no longer available, she can more freely be herself, confident that her "attached" status protects her from unwanted advances.

This interpretation feels much closer to truth to me, than thinking women who are in relationships "want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men."

* This behavior can include making jokes, holding eye contact, touching (like on the arm), etc.

This is what I meant by the second portion of my post though I specifically mentioned someone who is a friend or SO of a friend since that seems like a more likely scenario than with a stranger.

 

[DanP]

Here's another perspective: a woman being nice (or simply being themselves*) can easily be interpreted as flirting by some males. Women know this, and a single woman has to keep that behavior in check when she's around men, knowing how it will be interpreted. Once she's no longer available, she can more freely be herself, confident that her "attached" status protects her from unwanted advances.

This interpretation feels much closer to truth to me, than thinking women who are in relationships "want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men."

* This behavior can include making jokes, holding eye contact, touching (like on the arm), etc.

Correct interpretation IMO in most cases, but well, those who do-it, do-it on their own expense. You touch me, I feel free to touch you, and you shouldn't be (or act ) surprised. It's not like most men will care about the fact that you have another man "attached". So if you don't want to play, don't touch.

 

[lisab]

Correct interpretation IMO in most cases, but well, those who do-it, do-it on their own expense. You touch me, I feel free to touch you, and you shouldn't be (or act ) surprised. It's not like most men will care about the fact that you have another man "attached". So if you don't want to play, don't touch.

Excellent point - I agree.

 

[Femme_physics]

Correct interpretation IMO in most cases, but well, those who do-it, do-it on their own expense. You touch me, I feel free to touch you, and you shouldn't be (or act ) surprised. It's not like most men will care about the fact that you have another man "attached". So if you don't want to play, don't touch.

*shrugs* I just do what comes naturally. I didn't realize my touching initiates some auto-reciprocation pact...that seems kinda silly.
I mean, sure, touch back, but if it's awkward/forced, you're going to feel it, not me. Everything is a matter of tact, not of unwritten agreements.

 

[DanP]

hrugs* I just do what comes naturally. I didn't realize my touching initiates some auto-reciprocation pact...that seems kinda silly.

It's not a pact, nor an unwritten agreement. You do what it comes naturally. Sure. Exactly that's what I do when you touch me. Naturally I touch you, if you appeal to me. If not, yeah, ill just be careful next time not to sit near you. You didn't asked for my permission to touch me, I won't ask for touching you.

You shouldn't expect a men who you touch not to touch you back if he so pleases. You initiated physical contact, live with the consequences. Else, keep your hands at home and use them on your "attached" man.

I mean, sure, touch back, but if it's awkward/forced, you're going to feel it, not me. Everything is a matter of tact, not of unwritten agreements.

Yeah, I am going to feel it, so what ? That's life. The same may be the case for you if you touch me. What do you think, that men like to be touched by any woman whatsoever ? No, we don't, so if I am not going to like it, you're going to feel it.

 

[Smiles302]

It's not a pact, nor an unwritten agreement. You do what it comes naturally. Sure. Exactly that's what I do when you touch me. Naturally I touch you, if you appeal to me. If not, yeah, ill just be careful next time not to sit near you. You didn't asked for my permission to touch me, I won't ask for touching you.

You shouldn't expect a men who you touch not to touch you back if he so pleases. You initiated physical contact, live with the consequences. Else, keep your hands at home and use them on your "attached" man.

Yeah, I am going to feel it, so what ? That's life. The same may be the case for you if you touch me. What do you think, that men like to be touched by any woman whatsoever ? No, we don't, so if I am not going to like it, you're going to feel it.

Well.. It depends on what you mean by touching. If I grabbed a man's *** I would expect him to feel free to grab mine. But if I touch your arm, this isn't an invitation to grab my breasts haha.

I have a crazy habit of grabbing a hold of people's elbows when I am drunk, to drunkenly make sure they are listening to me. No one has yet to take this as an invitation to do more than take me by the shoulders and stir me away from groups of strangers. I would be so very confused if someone took that as a invite to anything at all really.

Edit: *** = bum, crazy swear filter.

 

[DanP]

Well.. It depends on what you mean by touching. If I grabbed a man's *** I would expect him to feel free to grab mine. But if I touch your arm, this isn't an invitation to grab my breasts haha.

Touching is touching. Where ... is anybody's guess and depends of situation. Ppl usually return those touches in appropriate ways. But the bottom line is, if you don't want to be touched, don't touch.

 

[Smiles302]

*makes mental note not to invade Dan's personal space*

 

[DanP]

*makes mental note not to invade Dan's personal space*

I have a crazy habit of grabbing a hold of people's elbows when I am drunk, to drunkenly make sure they are listening to me.

Don't worry, if you come to be drunk and grab my elbow, Ill prolly just run away, or nicely ask your attached man to take you home :P

 

[Leptos]

I just avoid most people in general(male or female) because they're all scumbags the same.

 

[JaredJames]

I just avoid most people in general(male or female) because they're all scumbags the same.

Nice to know what you think of us.

EDIT: 'Most' of us.

 

[Drakkith]

I just avoid most people in general(male or female) because they're all scumbags the same.

I guess that depends on your definition of scumbag and whether you accept the reasons they are like that or not.

 

[Femme_physics]

@ DanP.

Yea, it's really situational. How and where...and who! Some guys are just bad at it and awkward, they're often too aware of themselves and tend not to reciprocate contact. Others have a good attitude and can do it smoothly. I actually love sitting next to them, a lot of flirting and fun. ^^

 

[DanP]

@ DanP.

Yea, it's really situational. How and where...and who! Some guys are just bad at it and awkward, they're often too aware of themselves and tend not to reciprocate contact. Others have a good attitude and can do it smoothly. I actually love sitting next to them, a lot of flirting and fun. ^^

Everything in social relations is situational. It goes without saying.

Look, all I am trying to get across is the fact that if you are not interested in playing, don't touch. I am not really debating how bad or good somebody is at flirting and other games.

Especially if you are an attached women. Your married or otherwise engaged status is not effective in "protecting" you from being hit. Men, in general, don't care about other man, and why should we, we owe nothing to him and you shouldn't expect us to care that you have a bf, this is my main point to which i responded. So if you want , to put it in Lisab's words "want to feel as though they can still be attractive to other men.", be prepared for game. It's not a license to "I touch you watch because I have a hubby".

 

[DanP]

Well now that's just down right insulting.

Or maybe just plain true. Try to get them in bed, you will see how "interested" she is in you. It's as simple as that. Act.

 

[Newai]

Or maybe just plain true. Try to get them in bed, you will see how "interested" she is in you. It's as simple as that. Act.

No. Not going there. Especially the ones with kids. I had those opportunities a few times, but there's no way I'll break up a family for any reason. Even if a husband is a jerk. Show me the divorce paper and maybe we'll hang out some time. Otherwise, no.

 

[DanP]

No. Not going there. Especially the ones with kids. I had those opportunities a few times, but there's no way I'll break up a family for any reason. Even if a husband is a jerk. Show me the divorce paper and maybe we'll hang out some time. Otherwise, no.

If she's got the itch, she'll scratch one way or another. And if it's not going to be you, there will be with another guy.

Anyway, in response to your original question, there is a huge gap between a woman "cozy right up to you", and her wanting you as a man. You wouldn't believe how many chicks are friendly and warm with guys they would never go in bed with. And usually they choose them well, in the sense that those guys are too soft to ever act to close the gap and try to get them in bed. So the chick feels pretty safe with this guy. He doesn't act. The "good enough for a friend but I would never sleep with him", "he doesn't tell me anything as a man" types. As one of the posters in this thread said ... "I didn't realize my touching initiates some auto-reciprocation pact... ". Well , in many cases there is no need for such a "pact", because the guy in question doesn't have the guts to act. She would be way more careful in playing such games with a man which is pretty likely to go on closing the gap. But anyway, that's how many chicks think.

We have a saying around here. "Don't keep a chick warm for another man". It's a wise one:P I'm not saying that this happens in your case. What actually happens is for you to discover.

 

[Femme_physics]

Yea, well, if she's in a relationship and cozies up to you, what'll you do? Tell her to stop the flirty behavior? You ealier said "touch back",etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by "keeping a chick warm", either.

 

[Smiles302]

... Are you saying you wouldn't have any friendships with women?

 

[DanP]

Yea, well, if she's in a relationship and cozies up to you, what'll you do? Tell her to stop the flirty behavior? You ealier said "touch back",etc.

Thats exactly what a single man should do, if you like that girl. Somebody flirts with you, you flirt back. Flirting per se doesn't has to have any sexual finality, it's more a reminder that I am a man, your a woman, and doesn't have to involve any kind of physical contact or overly overt sexual innuendo to be funny and relaxing. When you start to touch, you start to push things a bit. Flirting happens daily for all of us, it happens on streets, with cashiers in banks or in stores, sometimes at work... it's not a bog deal at all if it's not pushed too far.

Somebody touches you, yeah, you just got a license to touch back. Like it or not, realize it or not, the moment you touch me, you just gave me free way to touch you. If this is not your intent, and you prefer not to be touched, keep your hands at home. And before anybody jumps in terror at this idea, please realize that humans usually respond to touches properly, it's not like you touch my hand and the next moment my hand is between your legs. Well, not unless I am pretty sure you want my hand there :P But anyway, I am game.

So the context is pretty important. I said If I am single, because if I am with someone there, I don't want to touch back or engage in heavy duty flirting, and make my partner feel bad. Ill pretty much cut it short the moment it crosses the line. I don't want my woman to feel angry with me, Id rather prefer her to be angry on that other woman who makes a move on me. Also, if I am single it is not me who owes any allegiance to your partner , it's you.

So this is pretty much my advice for men. You like her, you got to try. Unless you want to be her pet, and like a good pet wig your tail and play a game on her rules. You lose NOTHING by trying. If she is game, that cool, if it's not, well, that's life. And she will tone her behavior down immediately as a result of this. She won't make the mistake to engage in over-familiarity (as I said, some flirting is OK, touching is another level) again with you for some self-esteem boosting or whatever other reasons.

 

[DanP]

... Are you saying you wouldn't have any friendships with women?

Ppl make from man -women friendships too much of a pain than it really is. The problem is not that a man and woman cannot be friends. The problem is that most of those friendships are not really friendships. In many of those cases, a man and a woman are friends for all the wrong reasons. One of them hopes to be more than friends, and the other doesn't care for that. So rather than being a friendship, it's one of them being friends with the other in the hope that time will change something. Most of the times it doesn't happen.

So what I tell ppl is to be honest about it. Make up your mind what you want from another person, a friend or a girlfriend. If you want to have sex with her, you are way better off trying to get her, and move on if you fail. Don't settle for idiotic friendships for all the wrong reasons. Don't be concerned with what she will think about you, of cheap drama like " I thought you are better than this", "I thought you like me for what I am, and enjoy my company", they are all bull. It is important to be honest to yourself, and live to your own expectations in the first place, not to other ppl expectations. This is IMO important for both man and woman.

And because you asked me directly a personal question, let me respond to it. As it happens all of my friends are males. Those are relations forged over 2 decades, more in some cases, and are the only ones which I can call friendships. I have very few friends. There is a single women which comes close to what I call a friend in my life. It started from a common interest in sports which we both share. The relation still progresses, god knows, maybe in another year we will be friends. But then again, friends doit too :P I like to believe that I was a good friend, not only a lover to each women I was with. But that's a very different situation.

The rest are an pretty homogeneous amalgam of ppl of both sexes which I call "buddies" and "acquaintances", ppl for which I have a feeling of light likeness to say so. It;s good to have buddies of all sexes. for once, you are never alone and never hungry.

 

[Femme_physics]

Make up your mind what you want from another person, a friend or a girlfriend. If you want to have sex with her, you are way better off trying to get her, and move on if you fail. Don't settle for idiotic friendships for all the wrong reasons.

And what if you're classmates or coworkers that have some sort of practical relationship, but still get to flirt-- would you always try to push envelope there too? And let's say you do make a move and she says no, doesn't it risk discomfort at the place of work/school?

For the record, I'm not saying one shouldn't at all try even if he has a practical relationship with a girl he flirts, I'm saying one should apply a lot more caution in this case...right?

 

[DanP]

And what if you're classmates or coworkers that have some sort of practical relationship, but still get to flirt-- would you try to push envelope there too? And let's say you do make a move and she says no, doesn't it risk discomfort at the place of work/school?

You'll have to make your mind on a case by case basis. But as I said, flirting does not necessarily has to have a finality. Its fun and relaxing. On the other hand If I really want someone, yes, Ill try to make that happen. Id rather risk the discomfort and the failure than turning around in my bed at night thinking at her and not doing anything about it.

And in reference to another thread here, IMO the best way to do something about it is up close and personal, with a crooked smile on your face, not with letters, windshield notes, text messages, or the horror of them all, Facebook.

For the record, I'm not saying one shouldn't at all try even if he has a practical relationship with a girl he flirts, I'm saying one should apply a lot more caution in this case...right?

I say, how much do you want him/her ? If you want someone really bad, I say the risk is worth it. Caution is not bad as long as it doesn't paralyze you, or trick you into delays which will move things out of the window of opportunity.

 

[Femme_physics]

Fair enough :)

 

[DanP]

Fair enough :)

Yeah, life is simple, aint it ?

Anyway, for a long time I believed that men and women , with all the nice and not so nice things they do, deserve each other. And no one put this better than R. Sapolsky of Stanford IMO:

Biologically, a terribly confused primate—for example, by anatomical, physiological and genetic criteria, we're not a classic monogamous species, not a classic polygamous one, but somewhere in between, generating huge amounts of literature and Hollywood scandals as a result.