Is This the Most Mind-Blowing Performance Ever?

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The discussion centers around the authenticity of a video showing an elephant painting, sparking a debate about animal intelligence and the nature of the artwork. Participants express amazement at the elephant's apparent skill but also skepticism, suggesting the video may be staged or manipulated. Some argue that while elephants can be trained to paint, they likely do not understand the art they create, merely following commands. Concerns are raised about the implications of such videos on the perception of elephant intelligence, with some participants emphasizing the need for corroborative evidence to support claims of genuine artistic ability. Others share links to articles and documentaries that discuss elephant art, highlighting the animals' emotional depth and intelligence, yet maintain that the specific video in question lacks credibility. Overall, the conversation reflects a mix of fascination and skepticism regarding the capabilities of elephants and the ethics of their training for entertainment purposes.
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No, you're not.



I literally felt like dropping to my knees while watching that. I don't think I've ever been this amazed in my life...
 
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Yeah just saw it in CNN.

If you ever seen the show "Real Superhumans" which is on BBC or in The Science Channel (in the US), there's a blind man named Esref Armagan who is born with no eyes, yet can paint in 3-dimensional perspective. That's mind-blowing as well!
 
Wow! That elephant paints better than I do! Even if it was somehow trained to draw these pictures, that's pretty amazing.

Though, watching, I have to wonder...do elephants have trouble with depth perception? Did you notice that it seemed so unsteady every time as it approached the canvas with the brush, but once it had the brush pressed against the canvas, it drew very precise lines (even traced over the same lines without error that I could see)? It looked to me like it couldn't quite judge how far to the canvas, but once it was touching, then was able to be very precise with its movements.

Overall, really cool.
 
Poop-Loops said:
No, you're not.



I literally felt like dropping to my knees while watching that. I don't think I've ever been this amazed in my life...
While elephants are known to have incredible memories and emotions as far as ties to other elephants, and they paint some great abstract pictures, I have to say that this is a hoax.

I've seen some incredible films on elephants, but this isn't real. I'm fairly sure this will be exposed as having been fabricated.
 
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I don't think it was depth perception, I think it had to do with trying to make precise movements with its huge trunk. Humans can anchor their pinky on the canvas to be more precise if they have to, but for an elephant it's really hard, especially since there aren't any bones to keep the trunk steady.
 
Evo said:
I've seen some incredible films on elephants, but this isn't real. I'm fairly sure this will be exposed as having been fabricated.

I figured they were probably trained to paint those pictures; As I see it, they don't really understand what they're painting, they just do what they have been instructed to do. Trunks seem pretty flexible/precise too.
 
Evo said:
I have to say that this is a hoax.

I've seen some incredible films on elephants, but this isn't real. I'm fairly sure this will be exposed as having been fabricated.

Uh huh, it's easy to be an e-tough gal, but I'd like to see you say that to his face.
 
Ridiculous.
 
  • #10
Poop-Loops said:
Uh huh, it's easy to be an e-tough gal, but I'd like to see you say that to his face.
The best documentary on elephants I saw recently ripped at my heart. It showed the reunion between two elephants that had been separated for at least 25 years. They recognized each other, embraced, and cried tears and couldn't be separated.

This painting though, I really feel has been "tampered" with. I hope it doesn't impede study into elephant intelligence, which I think is incredible.
 
  • #11
I thought that was fake too. But in the end, when the elephant drew the rose, one of the guys behind the scenes was hold a picture of the rose. So looks it like the elephant drew what it saw, not from memory.
 
  • #12
The entire reason for speculation is that it gets zoomed up to the trunk, so you can't tell if it's attached to an elephant or if it's a sock that someone has his hand in. I know what you mean. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if someone debunks it...
 
  • #13
No way. HAS to be a hoax. It just doesn't look right.
 
  • #14
It's not a hoax, just google "elephant art" and you will get tons of crap.

There's even a national geographic article on it

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/06/0626_020626_elephant.html
More elephant art

http://store.exoticworldgifts.com/prostores/servlet/-strse-277/Painted-by-an-Elephant/Detail

http://store.exoticworldgifts.com/prostores/servlet/-strse-278/Painted-by-an-Elephant/Detail
 
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  • #15
Elephants: 1
Physicists: 0
 
  • #16
Hmmm maybe when I go to Thailand in June I will be able to pick up some elephant art. Thais definitely love their elephants.
 
  • #17
I for one welcome our artistic elephant overlords
 
  • #18
Evo said:
The best documentary on elephants I saw recently ripped at my heart. It showed the reunion between two elephants that had been separated for at least 25 years. They recognized each other, embraced, and cried tears and couldn't be separated.

This painting though, I really feel has been "tampered" with. I hope it doesn't impede study into elephant intelligence, which I think is incredible.
Aw, do you have a link?
 
  • #19
rocomath said:
Aw, do you have a link?
I'll have to hunt for one. After seeing this documentary, you will never think of elephants as being less than human.
 
  • #20
I'm a big fan of elephants. Here's a link that briefly discusses elephant's emotions:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/unforgettable/emotions.html

In Hoenwald, Tennessee, there's a huge sanctuary for retired circus and zoo elephants:

http://www.elephants.com/

I look at that site regularly. The keepers post on the elephants' daily activities. In the last couple of weeks, two of their elephants have died, unfortunately.

I think elephants are incredible animals with rich emotional lifes. But seriously, I think the video is faked.
 
  • #21
Un-Freakin-Believable

Wow!
 
  • #22
gravenewworld said:
It's not a hoax, just google "elephant art" and you will get tons of crap.

There's even a national geographic article on it

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/06/0626_020626_elephant.html
But that has nothing to do with the youtube video. I have posted elephant art before, it is nothing like the video.
 
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  • #23
lisab said:
I think elephants are incredible animals with rich emotional lifes. But seriously, I think the video is faked.
I have to agree lisab, it's just not real and I'm afraid it will do more harm to the understanding of the intelligence of elephants than help.
 
  • #24
Evo said:
I have to agree lisab, it's just not real and I'm afraid it will do more harm to the understanding of the intelligence of elephants than help.

The burden of proof lies with you.
 
  • #26
Elephants > Humans

or what
 
  • #27
gravenewworld said:
Here are other videos of elephants painting other elephants with a zoomed out view so that you have the full body shot of the elephant while it is painting for all you skeptics.

please disprove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3WHhW4VykE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGEJKQzaMA&feature=related
You can't be serious. Do you see how many cuts there are? There is no continuous video of the elephant drawing anything. Just shots of him starting to hold up the brush.
 
  • #28
I believe this video to be a hoax.
 
  • #29
Evo said:
The best documentary on elephants I saw recently ripped at my heart. It showed the reunion between two elephants that had been separated for at least 25 years. They recognized each other, embraced, and cried tears and couldn't be separated.

The preserve you saw is near me. They are very protective of the elephants. The elephants live a good life and are well cared for.

www.elephants.com
 
  • #30
Fine, here's another one.

 
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  • #31
Poop-Loops said:
Fine, here's another one.

It's an elephant doing tricks it was taught. What's the point? Have you never been to a circus?
 
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  • #32
Have you ever tried throwing darts? That stuff is HARD.
 
  • #33
Poop-Loops said:
Have you ever tried throwing darts? That stuff is HARD.
Yes, I've thrown darts, and inadvertantly did spectacular. I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing and somehow won.

I can imagine an elephant's thrust would be much more than a man's.
 
  • #34
Yes, but did you throw them with your nose?
 
  • #35
There is no way that dart video is real. There was no Beer.
 
  • #36
Are you saying that Darts can only be present in a B-Field?
 
  • #37
Who... Me?
 
  • #38
Poop-Loops said:
Yes, but did you throw them with your nose?
If I stood close enough to have the same velocity as the elephant's throw, I'm sure I could do as well. An elephant's trunk is quite agile.

And I have insider information that the elephant had already embibed several gallons of Guinness.
 
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  • #39
Meh. Elephants aren't that intelligent. I know one that lost all its money betting on the Rangers.
 
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  • #40
Of course the elephant painting video is a fake. I saw it a few days ago and at first I was so amazed and I completely fell for it. The first half of the drawing blew me away, the second half though when it started going over lines to make them darker and then drawing the flower gave it away. It is a pretty good fake though they just went too far with it.
 
  • #41
That elephants not talented, I can paint better than that. :-p I know apes paint, I'm sure elephants can paint, but whether they are budding artists with talent?

http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/splash.php"

http://www.elephantart.com/catalog/splash.php"

I think the paintings are more likely to look like this though:

gran184.jpg


EDIT: useless fact #283782636726732: elephants may well have more than 40,000 muscles in their trunk alone.
 
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  • #42
Evo said:
It's an elephant doing tricks it was taught. What's the point? Have you never been to a circus?

As I said, even if it's a trick it was taught, it's still pretty incredible how precisely it draws...try to get a 5 year old to follow the lines that neatly. Heck, even if there's light pencil lines on the paper that we can't see, or someone coaching it or holding up pictures for it to copy just out of camera view, it's still pretty cool just for the control the elephant has over the paintbrush. (By the way, it is clear the elephant isn't the one deciding when to "refresh" the brush or picking colors...one of the wider angle shots shows the trainer exchanging brushes for the elephant.)
 
  • #43
Oh c'mon moonbear. Don't tell me you really fell for it.
 
  • #44
Moonbear said:
As I said, even if it's a trick it was taught, it's still pretty incredible how precisely it draws...
I was referring to the video of it throwing darts at balloons.
 
  • #45
Evo said:
You can't be serious. Do you see how many cuts there are? There is no continuous video of the elephant drawing anything. Just shots of him starting to hold up the brush.

Once again the burden of proof lies with the skeptic. Got any proof yet? I'm waiting. Please supply a link.
 
  • #46
gravenewworld said:
Once again the burden of proof lies with the skeptic. Got any proof yet? I'm waiting. Please supply a link.
You post a chopped up and badly edited youtube video and claim it's authentic, I am afraid the onus is on you to prove that it's real. The burden of proof lies with you for claiming it's real. Where did you get the notion that the burden of proof is with the skeptic?

I could create hoaxes all day and then tell you that if you don't believe me that you are required to prove me wrong? :confused:
 
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  • #47
Evo said:
I was referring to the video of it throwing darts at balloons.

I didn't see that one.
 
  • #48
gravenewworld said:
Once again the burden of proof lies with the skeptic. Got any proof yet? I'm waiting. Please supply a link.

Actually not, we all know elephants can't paint like humans, you're trying to claim they can. I think I'd accept a simple rendering from an elephant but you're asking us to believe elephants are sophisticated self aware and talented artists. I'd say the burden of proof is on you to be honest.
 
  • #49
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof; it's not the skeptic's job to disprove an extraordinary claim.

A video that is zoomed in showing only the brush in the elephant's trunk is too easily faked.
 
  • #50
Schrodinger's Dog said:
Actually not, we all know elephants can't paint like humans, you're trying to claim they can. I think I'd accept a simple rendering from an elephant but you're asking us to believe elephants are sophisticated self aware and talented artists. I'd say the burden of proof is on you to be honest.

Where did I ever say elephants can paint like humans? All I said was that the elephant in the original video is the one actually painting the picture.

You post a chopped up and badly edited youtube video and claim it's authentic, I am afraid the onus is on you to prove that it's real. The burden of proof lies with you for claiming it's real. Where did you get the notion that the burden of proof is with the skeptic?

I could create hoaxes all day and then tell you that if you don't believe me that you are required to prove me wrong?


And what have you posted? Nothing.




Elephant art has been known since the '80s. What is in the original video is nothing new at all.
 

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