FAQ: Experimental Basis of Special Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the experimental basis of special and general relativity, highlighting recent updates to relevant compilations and exploring the implications of certain experimental results. Participants reference various sources and papers that compile experimental evidence and discuss potential inconsistencies with relativity theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the Usenet Physics FAQ on the experimental basis of special relativity has been updated, including new experiments and a section on experiments that may not align with special and general relativity.
  • Another participant inquires about a compilation of experimental evidence for general relativity, expressing interest in more recent sources beyond the MTW reference.
  • A different participant suggests a 2014 paper by Clifford Will as a good compilation of experimental evidence for general relativity, while acknowledging it does not include the latest LIGO results.
  • One participant introduces the concept of optical extinction and its relevance to measurements of the speed of light, referencing classical electrodynamics and discussing how this may affect conclusions drawn from certain experiments.
  • The same participant raises questions about the implications of measuring the speed of light through different media and the potential relevance of various cited papers, although they admit to not having read them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express interest in the experimental basis of both special and general relativity, but there is no consensus on the significance of certain experiments or the completeness of the available compilations. Multiple competing views and sources are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve limitations related to the definitions and assumptions underlying the measurements of light speed in various media, as well as the scope of the referenced compilations.

jtbell
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The section of the Usenet Physics FAQ titled "Experimental Basis of Special Relativity" has been cited here many times. I've just discovered that Tom Roberts has recently revised it. It now has information on experiments performed since the last edition seven years ago, and a larger section on "Experiments Which Apparently are not Consistent with SR/GR," with more analysis indicating why these experiments are generally not considered to be significant.

Here's the home of the current version:

http://www.edu-observatory.org/physics-faq/Relativity/SR/experiments.html

Apparently the other commonly-referenced mirror sites have not all been updated yet.
 
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Is there a compilation for the experimental basis for GENERAL relativity anywhere? MTW has a nice chapter. Is there anything more recent?
Thanks.
 
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exmarine said:
Is there a compilation for the experimental basis for GENERAL relativity anywhere?

This 2014 paper by Clifford Will gives a good compilation as of that date:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1403.7377

Unfortunately it does not include the latest LIGO results, since those all came after 2014. However, Will apparently updates this compilation every few years, so hopefully there will be a new one fairly soon.
 
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Possibly relevant are the remarks about optical extinction in the "experimental tests of relativity" FAQ stickied in PF, namely http://www.edu-observatory.org/physics-faq/Relativity/SR/experiments.html#Optical_Extinction

Optical Extinction

Many measurements of the speed of light involve the passage of the light through some material medium. This can invalidate some conclusions of the measurement due to the extinction theorem of Ewald and Oseen. This theorem states that the speed of light will approach the speed c/n relative to the medium (n is its index of refraction), and it also determines how long a path length is required for that approach. The distance required depends strongly on the index of refraction of the medium and the wavelength: for visible light and optical glass it is less than a micron, for air it is about a millimetre, and for the intergalactic medium it is several light years. So even astronomical observations over vast distances in the "vacuum" of outer space are not immune from the effects of this theorem. Note this theorem is based purely on classical electrodynamics, and for gamma rays detected as individual particles it does not apply; it is also not clear how it would apply to theories other than SR and classical electrodynamics. See for instance: J.G. Fox, Am. J. Phys. 30, pg 297 (1962), JOSA 57, pg 967 (1967), and AJP 33, pg 1 (1964). An elementary discussion is given in Ballenegger and Weber, AJP 67, pg 599 (1999). The standard reference for this is Born and Wolf, Principles of Optics, and the original paper is Oseen, Ann. der Physik 48, pg 1, 1915.

So what is of interest here is how we measure "the speed of light through a medium" , and issues related to the descriptions of the process in the time and frequency domains. I feel like the results in these papers are probably interesting and relevant, but not having read them myself I can really only bring them up as being of potential interest.
 

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