A demonstration on the necessary positive change in the entropy

AI Thread Summary
In a spontaneous process involving two bodies at different temperatures, the challenge is to demonstrate that the total change in entropy, ΔS, is positive when they reach thermal equilibrium. The individual entropy changes for each body are calculated using their respective heat capacities and the logarithmic relationship with temperature. The key inequality to prove is that N1 ln(T/T1) + N2 ln(T/T2) > 0, which requires careful consideration of the conservation of energy and the relationship between the temperatures. Discussions emphasize the importance of accounting for small changes in temperature during the process to ensure the temperatures remain distinct. Ultimately, the conversation revolves around finding a formal demonstration of the positive change in entropy.
Rulonegger
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Homework Statement


Hello everyone. My problem is as follows: In a spontaneous process where two bodies at different temperatures T_{1} and T_{2}, where T_{1}>T_{2}, are put together until they reach thermal equilibrium. The number of atoms or molecules of the first is N_{1} and N_{2} for the second one, with N_{1} \neq N_{2}, and they have heat capacities equal to C_{V_{1}}=aN_{1}k and C_{V_{2}}=aN_{2}k, with a given with the appropriate units. Past some sufficiently large time, the system reaches a temperature T, provided that T_{1}>T>T_{2}, which is in function of the initial temperatures and the number of atoms or molecules of the two bodies. The problem is that i can't demonstate that the change of the entropy of the system as a whole is positive, i.e. \bigtriangleup S>0

Homework Equations


When i compute the change of the entropy for the i-th body, i get
\bigtriangleup S_{i}=\int_{T_{i}}^T \! \frac{1}{T} \, \mathrm{d} Q=\int_{T_{i}}^T \! \frac{aN_{i}k}{T} \, \mathrm{d} T=aN_{i}k\int_{T_{i}}^T \! \frac{1}{T} \, \mathrm{d} T=aN_{i}k\ln{\frac{T}{T_{i}}}
With the hypothesis that the entropy is an extensive property, then \bigtriangleup S=\bigtriangleup S_{1}+\bigtriangleup S_{2}=aN_{1}k\ln{\frac{T}{T_{1}}}+aN_{2}k\ln{\frac{T}{T_{2}}}
So i just have to prove that N_{1}\ln{\frac{T}{T_{1}}}+N_{2}\ln{\frac{T}{T_{2}}} > 0

The Attempt at a Solution


I think that i have to use the two cases (N_{1}>N_{2} and N_{1}<N_{2}), and using the fact that T_{1}>T>T_{2}, to prove the inequality, but i have tried to do it in very different ways, and i get nothing, so i think there is some trick to demonstrating that, but I'm still a bit of an amateur in proving tricky inequalities.
 
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Don't you need conservation of energy? Otherwise there's nothing to stop both ending arbitrarily close to T2.
 
Actually I've used conservation of energy, and i can determine the temperature T of equilibrium, which is T=\frac{N_{1}T_{1}+N_{2}T_{2}}{N_{1}+N_{2}}but when i substitute that expression on the inequality, the later just complicates a little bit more. In despite of this, i think i must substitute T in the inequality, but i get nothing again.
 
I'm sure it can be done this way, but I feel that performing the integral just makes life harder. Consider a small dQ transferred. The hotter body loses dQ/T1, the cooler gains dQ/T2. Since T1 > T2, the sum has increased.
 
Thanks haruspex. If i understand, you say that dS=dS_{1}+dS_{2}=\frac{dQ}{T_{1}}+\frac{dQ}{T_{2}}With the fact that T_{1}>T_{2}, therefore a small dQ transferred between them would lead a change in the first entropy which is smaller than the change of the second one, without sayin anything about C_{V_{1}} nor C_{V_{2}}? But maybe i should take into account a small change in the temperature T_{1} and in T_{2} just to get a formal demonstration, don't you think?
 
Rulonegger said:
dS=dS_{1}+dS_{2}=\frac{dQ}{T_{1}}+\frac{dQ}{T_{2}}
dS=dS_{1}+dS_{2}=\frac{-dQ}{T_{1}}+\frac{dQ}{T_{2}}
But maybe i should take into account a small change in the temperature T_{1} and in T_{2} just to get a formal demonstration, don't you think?
Yes, I suppose strictly you should say ΔS1 ≥ -dQ/(T1 + ΔT1) and ΔS2 ≥ dQ/(T2 + ΔT2) (ΔT1 being negative). You will probably also need to specify T1 + ΔT1 > T2 + ΔT2, i.e. the deltas are small enough that the temperatures do not cross over.
 
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